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Old 07-08-2013, 08:22 PM   #21 
eden000
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I know you seem hesitant to use Epsom Salt, and I do agree with trying WC first, but I *really* suggest ES before using any meds. Meds can stress the fish a lot, whereas you could have ES in his water for up to 10 days (at a low dose) without hurting him. Epsom Salt is different than Aquarium Salt (which has been known to stress betas) - ES just draws out fluid. So if it gets severe and there's too much fluid in his eye and you're really worried, the ES could reduce swelling. Like I said, I've used it to great success.
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:53 PM   #22 
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thx guys. she came home with aquarium salt. No ampicillin. We're debating our options now. We do have the old aquarium still. may use it as hospital tank.
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:04 AM   #23 
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http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=68912

I found this old thread where oldfishlady highly recommends the use of epsom salt. Thx eden000. I'm working tomorrow, but I'll try to find some epsom salt somewhere before work. Whatever happens, GF has to find it too as I won't be off work 'til 11pm.

When I left her place an hour ago, the swelling in the eye seems to be the same as it was yesterday but the left eye has a thin layer of filmy white stuff. You really have to look at it before you notice it but it's something new. Had I seen that earlier in the day, we certainly would have gone out again in search of epsom salt but by the time we saw it, all the stores are closed. He was still following my finger, all flared up (keep reading...), so his eyesight is still ok for the time being.

If it is malnutrition, he got fed 7 pellets today, three in the morning, 2 when i got there, one at supper time and 1 more 2 hours before bed time. We'll cut back to 6 tomorrow and now that my GF knows how much to feed and what to look for, i hope it doesn't get any worse.

I saw the filmy white stuff right as I was about to leave GF's house. With nothing but aquarium salt, our options were pretty limited. There is 8L of water that has been sitting for 2 hours. May be the same temp as aquarium and we discussed pouring that in his old tank and transferring him there just so that we can be sure it is a clean environment for him, but if the reason for the popeye is bacterial, then he would simply carry it with him to the new tank. Also, until we have the salt, I didn't want to weaken his immune system by putting him through the stress of being in a new and bare environment.

The one good news that I have to report, and the reason I am so against salt/antibiotic treatment, is that even through all this, Sashi's energetic attitude has remained intact as though he weren't sick at all. No bottom dwelling emo fish here folks. In fact he is actually more active now than I've ever seen him before. Had I completed Journal #8, you guys would have known that Sashi came pre-installed with the "i'm gonna flare at anything you put up against my tank" trick. For those that don't know what that is, it involves putting a mirror against the tank, slipping a pen in between, then removing the mirror.

here's the how it's done video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZSso2B3_zo

Done enough times, the betta can be trained to flare at the same pen just by putting it close to the aquarium. Apparently, Sashi didn't need training. "I was born ready," he'd probably say. He did this to me day 8, day 11 to my GF. My uncle was over today, and if he is sick with some kind of bacteria, it didn't stop him from flaring when I told said uncle to put his finger agianst the tank. It was a totally new face to Sashi, and said uncle was having so much fun doing it that GF had to tell him to stop after half a minute. Obviously uncle enjoyed the spectacle that is Sashi, and Sashi maintained his flare throughout the duration of the perceived threat. Two days ago, said uncle's 3 year old grandson was over, whom I'll be referring to as Sashi's "Nemesis." First time they met I was at work, 2nd time I was there and we had to tell him to put the fish net down, he wasn't fishing Sashi out of the tank, nor was he dropping the remaining marbles in the pool cuz they weren't food. Two days ago, again I wasn't there, but GF says that Sashi knows Nemesis by his face now that even without any provocation, Sashi was already flaring at the 3 year old boy when he approached the tank. Needless to say, we are not teaching Nemesis the "follow my finger" trick.

As for his swimming, he now swims in morse code. Short speedy burst of speed, glide, short speedy burst of speed X infinity for as long as he thinks we are there to feed him. At first I thought this was a sign that he was sick that was causing him to swim that way. Today we snuck up from afar and watched him when he thought he was alone and he was swimming much more calmly. He probably just got to know his "servants," the ones that bring him food and gets all excited.

Regardless of how I feel about medications, I realize that it would be unethical of me to impose the same thing on Sashi at this stage of his life. When I was his age, I was sick a lot and my dad always gave me meds to make me feel better. It was only when I was old enough to make my own decisions that I stopped taking medicine. Tomorrow, the salt treatment begins.

A wise member of this community stated at some point (forgot who) that the bad things are the only things in this hobby that happen quick. The good things will take time. Oldfishlady's treatment schedule can take over 10 days so I'm just gonna try to keep a level head and pray that Sashi keeps his eyesight.

Was too upset last night to write #8, but compared to what we are through now, those days were so much more calmer. If I can't fall asleep, I'l have it up in 4 hours. Otherwise 28. Reminiscing bout the good old days just might be the treatment I need.

P.S.
Two days ago after work, my coworkers and I hit up this restaurant where they sell hello kitty key chains and GF likes collecting them. Bought one for her and presented it the next day. Thought it was twisted when she said "I'm gonna make Sashi flare at it!" I was like "?" It's hello kitty for crying out loud. Then I realized it would be even more twisted if Sashi actually flared at Hello Kitty. You can read up all about it in journal #12. Will be resuming my journals. Compared to this, the problems I had beginning at day 8 is now actually kinda funny.
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:00 AM   #24 
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Originally Posted by Lindsaypez View Post
Please keep us updated! I just caught up on Sashi's story!

I am of zero help, but I just had to tell you that I relate to your stress and just wanting to help your fish! My Abraham is biting his fins and I've been so worried about it. He is such a beautiful fish and I'm so sad that his fins are wrecked! I've been doing everything I can think of to make him happy. I just bought a fancy water testing kit and tested his water and all his levels look good which made me feel better that at least I know I'm taking good care of him. Have you considered buying test kits for Sashi? Or taking a water sample to a pet store to have them test it? I know you're doing great with keeping your water conditions clean, but it sometimes is comforting to actually have the proof that the chemistry is where it should be! As I've typed this I keep glancing at Abraham and his chewed fins. *sigh* It's such a helpless feeling to watch them be unwell. I hope Sashi makes a fast recovery and I look forward to reading your updates! Good luck!
I not sure which of Sashi's story you are caught up to as I got two of them, this sad one here or the funny one below

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=216674

It's nearing the 8th entry so it's a long read. In the first week GF bought a test kit and we've used it twice. Don't know why it's reading 0 ammonia 2 readings in a row though. Either the filter is that good or the kit is no good. Highest reading we got was day 4 on a 2.5 gallon tank which showed 0.25.
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:22 AM   #25 
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Considering that bettas can go for days without food and you were feeding him daily, I doubt it has something to do with malnutrition, but I could be wrong. When my fish was refusing to eat for days after I brought him home, everyone told me not to worry because new bettas often don't eat for a week or two. One person even said that one of theirs went almost a month. It seems more likely to me that it is a result of something the pet store did or didn't do. Expecially after what I have seen/been told by pet store employees pertaining to betta care and treatment. (or lack thereof) It sounds like you are a very conscientious owner though, and hopefully your fish will pull through whatever it is going through.
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:26 AM   #26 
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Hey guys i tried to read all posts really briefly to understand what is going on. I just want to add something.
MJ1911 I saw you mentioned stress coat. Stress coat has Aloe Vera in it and very good for healing. So it definitely can not be the reason he might get sick. But it also a water conditioner ,so if you adding it along with another water conditioner make sure you add a few drops per gall, probobly not more than that since you already using water conditioner. A lot of people on the forum using it ,so it safe don't worry about it.

He is not elephant ear betta right? Elephant ear betta tend to have bulgier eye then other betta types.
Are you sure there is enhancement in the size of his eyes? Is it only one eye that bigger than another one or it both eyes? Sorry i really can't say anything from the picture.

If you have filter in his tank (5 gall) , and if you trying to cycle it,you need to do weekly 50% water changes with the gravel vacuuming and filter medica rinse/swish in the dechlorinated water or tank water weekly. A lot of people even recommending to do more water changes for 5 gall filtered tank.

I saw that you want to do full water changes? If you tank not cycled and since you already doing so many 50% water changes you can do full water change. If you not trying to cycle your tank you need to do about - alternate 50% and 100% water changes weekly.

Do not afraid to use Epsom salt it not going to harm him in any way. Salt encourage the protection of slime coat so that the fish can naturally shed the bacteria himself. In addition some bacteria can be killed by the salt. In addition salt will help balance his electrolyte level. Salt as conservative method always better to go with before bringing in medications. But again it also depends on every situation and severity of the disease/symptoms.
For pop eye you need Epsom salt (100% Magnesium sulfate NO DYES, PERFUMES, OR ADDITIVES) just plain unscented Epsom salt that you can find at any pharmacy department, not at pet store. Epsom salt reduce fluid retention.

You found old thread from Oldfishlady ,who was the one actually who introduce everyone on the forum to that method to treat bettas. Bettas are extremely tolerable and benefitial to the salts treatments when needed.

Epsom salt is actually very mild and you can use it for long time for pop eye, dropsy symptoms, constipation (salt works as laxative) etc You can use Epsom salt for very long time in dosage of 1tsp/gall- 3tsp/gall

Aquarium salt - treats ich, wounds, fin rot etc...Aquarium salt retain the fluid so yu never use it with dropsy.

For pop eye if you want to keep the filter you can do 50% daily water changes with 2 or 3 tsp/gall Epsom . Usually it with 100% daily water changes for at least 14 days. If you don't want to do full water changes with the treatment do 50% daily and redose Epsom with every water change.

Last edited by ANHEL123; 07-10-2013 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:54 AM   #27 
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Originally Posted by ANHEL123 View Post
Hey guys i tried to read all posts really briefly to understand what is going on. I just want to add something.
MJ1911 I saw you mentioned stress coat. Stress coat has Aloe Vera in it and very good for healing. So it definitely can not be the reason he might get sick. But it also a water conditioner ,so if you adding it along with another water conditioner make sure you add a few drops per gall, probobly not more than that since you already using water conditioner. A lot of people on the forum using it ,so it safe don't worry about it.

He is not elephant ear betta right? Elephant ear betta tend to have bulgier eye then other betta types.
Are you sure there is enhancement in the size of his eyes? Is it only one eye that bigger than another one or it both eyes? Sorry i really can't say anything from the picture.

If you have filter in his tank (5 gall) , and if you trying to cycle it,you need to do weekly 50% water changes with the gravel vacuuming and filter medica rinse/swish in the dechlorinated water or tank water weekly. A lot of people even recommending to do more water changes for 5 gall filtered tank.

I saw that you want to do full water changes? If you tank not cycled and since you already doing so many 50% water changes you can do full water change. If you not trying to cycle your tank you need to do about - alternate 50% and 100% water changes weekly.

Do not afraid to use Epsom salt it not going to harm him in any way. Salt encourage the protection of slime coat so that the fish can naturally shed the bacteria himself. In addition some bacteria can be killed by the salt. In addition salt will help balance his electrolyte level. Salt as conservative method always better to go with before bringing in medications. But again it also depends on every situation and severity of the disease/symptoms.
For pop eye you need Epsom salt (100% Magnesium sulfate NO DYES, PERFUMES, OR ADDITIVES) just plain unscented Epsom salt that you can find at any pharmacy department, not at pet store. Epsom salt reduce fluid retention.

You found old thread from Oldfishlady ,who was the one actually who introduce everyone on the forum to that method to treat bettas. Bettas are extremely tolerable and benefitial to the salts treatments when needed.

Epsom salt is actually very mild and you can use it for long time for pop eye, dropsy symptoms, constipation (salt works as laxative) etc You can use Epsom salt for very long time in dosage of 1tsp/gall- 3tsp/gall

Aquarium salt - treats ich, wounds, fin rot etc...Aquarium salt retain the fluid so yu never use it with dropsy.

For pop eye if you want to keep the filter you can do 50% daily water changes with 2 or 3 tsp/gall Epsom . Usually it with 100% daily water changes for at least 14 days. If you don't want to do full water changes with the treatment do 50% daily and redose Epsom with every water change.
I don't think it's an elephant ear- MJ1911 said that Sashi was from a petstore, so probably not a specific type. Looks like a veiltail to me.
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:50 PM   #28 
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He's your run off the mill Veil tail. GF put him in his old tank, 2.5 gal, yesterday with a total of 2tsp of epsom salt. We are not putting in the filter. Simply be doing 95% water change everyday.

Tomorrow will up the salt to a total of 4tsp in his 2.5 gal.

I think he'll pull through, will just take time. Site was down last night, otherwise woulda posted a journal entry. Working on that now.
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:58 PM   #29 
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Hope Sashi does well! I know you're doing a good job. :)
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:22 PM   #30 
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Hope Sashi does well! I know you're doing a good job. :)
Thx, hope ur right. Before the question is asked, it's 95% because I never wanted to use fishnet from the beginning. Didn't want to stress the fish. I think it's more important to not use it now that he's Popeye the sailor man because I'm afraid his eye jutting out like that is more prone to injury while in net.

We'll transfer him as we always have, he'll swim to the cup, scoop out, he swims out when we place him back down with new water, cup retains most of the the dirty water when pulled out.
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