Betta Fish Care  
Go Back   Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care > Betta Chat
Check out the eBook Betta Fish Care Made Easy
betta fish
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-04-2013, 09:51 PM   #1 
shannonpwns
Member
 
shannonpwns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Simi Valley, California
Question Starting a sorority - Few ?s on cycling

My stand for my 20 long should be here tomorrow, so ill be setting up a new sorority. I want to cycle it as quick as possible, so I can get all my girls out of their temp 1/2 gal-1 gal tanks. I have 8 females. 2 of them I have had for quite a while, and the others I just got last Wednesday.

I have Tetra safestart and was planning on using that to cycle, but I wanted some opinions on that.

My concerns are -
1. Are 2 females enough to cycle the tank?
2. Those 2 females, will they think they own the whole tank and won't accept the other females as easily?
3. Same concern as above, if after they cycle the tank, I'd have to introduce the other females a few at a time to allow the BB to grow to sustain more stock, so would that be a bad idea because the last few fish will be the last to find their "place" in the tank?
4. What if I had the 2 girls cycle the tank, and then remove them and rearrange the tank, and then introduce all 8 at the same time?
5. In regards to number 4, would that cause too huge of a spike in ammonia while the BB tries to catch up?
6. Should I just use ALL of the females (after proper quarantine) to cycle the tank together, that way they are all introduced at the same time, and there will be less aggression hopefully?
7. Two of my new females are more than half the size of my full grown females, will they be okay with the larger girls or should I keep them out until they grow up some?
shannonpwns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2013, 09:53 PM   #2 
lilnaugrim
Reference Team
 
lilnaugrim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Rhode Island
My first question: will you be having live plants?

1. can't possibly do this because they will fight and kill each other.
7. Size doesn't matter. I had one of my smallest girls be my alpha for quite a while! She know's how to put up a fight but now one of my larger girls; Mystique is my alpha and has been for quite some time now and all is good.
lilnaugrim is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2013, 10:15 PM   #3 
shannonpwns
Member
 
shannonpwns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Simi Valley, California
Yes there will be tons of live plants. I'm going to buy them straight from my LFS once the tank is ready. And hiding places. This is what I've got so far for decor, and a couple small things that aren't in the picture.
Attached Images
 
shannonpwns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2013, 10:16 PM   #4 
shannonpwns
Member
 
shannonpwns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Simi Valley, California
I figured as much that the two alone couldn't even cycle the tank. What should I do? :(

Btw, I don't think i like the plants on the log, and am considering removing them altogether.
shannonpwns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2013, 10:40 PM   #5 
Namialus
Member
 
Namialus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: North
I was reading this for you http://theaquariumwiki.com/Safestart

Go down to "Tip". If you use Prime, I guess it'll be okay to add all 8 at once. But do frequent changes at first.
Namialus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2013, 10:52 PM   #6 
shannonpwns
Member
 
shannonpwns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Simi Valley, California
Thank you! If that is true, then that's great! But it goes against what was said in a thread (that I don't want to link to because its on a different site and I don't think that's allowed) with questions straight from someone who directly emailed TSS.

Quote:
In regards to ammonia products, yes, they kill TSS. Any type, whether a
chloramines remover or detoxifier, etc, anything that says it locks up
ammonia or removes ammonia. Do not add TSS for 24 hours after using
such a product, and do not add such a product for at least 7 days after
using TSS. The bacteria is housed in a special stabilized solution of
ammonia, so if you remove/lock up the ammonia, you remove all of the
food the bacteria require to live.
This is the FULL message, above was the part I was referring to though.

Quote:
So...where to begin? First, ideally you should set up the tank, and let
it run at least 24 hours, then, shortly before you head off to the store
for your first fish, add TSS to the tank. Within two hours, you should
add the fish. Our normal recommendation is to add one small fish per
ten gallons of water. However, you CAN fully stock the tank, you just
need to keep a close eye on it, and be sure to not complicate matters by
overfeeding as well. We recommend this method for African cichlid tanks
since it is best to fully stock such a tank from the beginning due to
territorial issues. For a novice fish-keeper, we'd recommend the one
small fish per ten gallons rule for the first two weeks. Within two
weeks, TSS should have fully cycled the tank and they can start slowly
adding more fish, one at a time.

In regards to ammonia products, yes, they kill TSS. Any type, whether a
chloramines remover or detoxifier, etc, anything that says it locks up
ammonia or removes ammonia. Do not add TSS for 24 hours after using
such a product, and do not add such a product for at least 7 days after
using TSS. The bacteria is housed in a special stabilized solution of
ammonia, so if you remove/lock up the ammonia, you remove all of the
food the bacteria require to live.

If you already have fish, and are having an ammonia issue, it is best to
get the ammonia levels down to below 4.0. 4.0 and higher is just as
toxic to TSS as it is to fish. While 2.0 -3.5 PPM ammonia may harm some
of the TSS bacteria, it should still have some effect. You may want to
do a second dose several days after adding the first one, if you are not
seeing the results you want. Keep in mind, these are bacteria, not a
chemical, so results are slow to see. Give the product at least 5-7
days.

Best temperature for TSS is between 40 and 80 degrees. Freezing and
extreme heat will destroy it. Refrigeration is okay, but not necessary.

You can test the water any time, but really, you should probably wait at
least 48 hours. We expect TSS to start slowly seeding the tank, and
making a difference in about that time. You have to have some ammonia
occur in the tank to provide the cycle needed, so it will usually create
levels or reduce levels to around 1.0-1.5 ppm, and they should stay
there for a week to 14 days, and then come down. Sorry, these levels
would be for both ammonia and nitrite. These are considered stress, but
not toxic, levels, and should not cause any long term damage to the
fish.

We recommend waiting two weeks before a water change. Of course, if for
some reason, the levels go up to a high level again, we would recommend
a change at that point, and another dose. Usually, the hobbyist has
done something wrong the first time, in such cases.

Nope, bacteria should not affect the pH.

Hmmm....be sure the levels are not already toxic, shake the container
thoroughly, be sure to add the right dosage, do not use an ammonia
detoxifying product, and be patient. It won't give you zero readings in
an hour, like some folks think. By the way, carbon does not affect it
but uv lights do...we get those questions too. And just an
interesting point...the large aquariums, such as the Georgia Aquarium,
and the Shedd Aquarium, as well as huge research labs in this country
and other countries, also use TSS as well as the saltwater version Bio
Spira.

If I have not addressed all of your questions, please let me know.

Regards,

Tetra Care
shannonpwns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2013, 10:54 PM   #7 
Skyewillow
Member
 
Skyewillow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Michigania
Quote:
Originally Posted by shannonpwns View Post
Yes there will be tons of live plants. I'm going to buy them straight from my LFS once the tank is ready. And hiding places. This is what I've got so far for decor, and a couple small things that aren't in the picture.
soak the ornaments. I had the castle, and it smelled like paint in the tank.

also, I would safe start, cycle the tank for a little while longer, then add all the girls at once.

Another thing worth noting is to have a backup plan in case one of the girls you picked isn't sorority friendly. I've had some girls over the last few months who've had to live alone because they just can't handle community living, so to speak.
Skyewillow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2013, 11:37 PM   #8 
shannonpwns
Member
 
shannonpwns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Simi Valley, California
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyewillow View Post
soak the ornaments. I had the castle, and it smelled like paint in the tank.

also, I would safe start, cycle the tank for a little while longer, then add all the girls at once.

Another thing worth noting is to have a backup plan in case one of the girls you picked isn't sorority friendly. I've had some girls over the last few months who've had to live alone because they just can't handle community living, so to speak.
I have thought that may happen, if it does, ill just get some more 2.5 gallons. The kits are only $15. :)

Should I just use the safestart with pure ammonia then?

And I will soak all the decor tonight. How long does it take for the smell to appear?
shannonpwns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2013, 09:46 AM   #9 
lilnaugrim
Reference Team
 
lilnaugrim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Rhode Island
Also, just want to say about that log, it's great! My boy loves it but there is one small plant on it (there should be three all together) and it's completely plastic. You can take that one off but the other two taller ones are silk/fabric so they're totally fine! Never had an issue with that one.

And in regards to my question, if you have enough live plants you wont' have to worry about cycling. Basically the plants carry over BB if you get them from an already established tank and then they act as a buffer against ammonia/nitrite/nitrate and makes it safe for your fish. You can then fully stock your tank, still check your parameters to make sure you have enough plants. But if you do that and you have enough plants then, voila, you don't need to physically "cycle" the tank!
lilnaugrim is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2013, 02:49 PM   #10 
shannonpwns
Member
 
shannonpwns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Simi Valley, California
How many plants would be considered "enough" for a 20 long?
shannonpwns is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Starting a sorority ktmrox11 Betta Fish Compatibility 10 06-19-2013 11:00 PM
Starting my Sorority Mandy Pandy Betta Fish Compatibility 30 02-12-2013 04:18 PM
Starting a sorority... Ant10a Betta Fish Bowls, Habitats, and Accessories 3 07-03-2012 07:34 PM
Starting a Sorority EmilyN Betta Pictures 6 02-04-2012 01:54 AM
Starting a sorority LisaLB24 Betta Fish Compatibility 23 02-28-2011 11:52 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.