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Old 08-18-2013, 10:22 PM   #21 
ANHEL123
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so sorry i would think he at the stage that he needs to be medicated:(
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Old 08-19-2013, 07:36 AM   #22 
GBS
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But with what medicine? He eats and poops so I don't think he's constipated. His balance definitely seems off and he's fairly life-less.

On hand I have Betta Fix and Betta Revive. Will either of those help?
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:51 AM   #23 
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Is there any possibilities you can but the medication that LittleBlueFishlets recommended in her post #14? And it better API General Cure.
I would not use Betta Fix it not recommended and bad for betta labyrinth organs and it very easy to overdose. And its not going to help anyway since he has i think more likely internal problems. I am not sure about Betta Revive since i think it also for external problems.
If you can't buy those other meds i would really use Epsom. He didn't get worse from Epsom salt. He got worse from whatever he has going on with him and its just progressing.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:20 AM   #24 
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I went in to our local/just about only tropical fish store and the kid behind the counter was useless. He first tried to give me medicine and the packaging looked yellowed and I asked him if he had another one as this one looked old. He said no and that's fine. Then I read the bottle - the medicine expired in 2008.

He had no clue what he was talking about. I bet I'd have better luck in the advice department from Petco or Petsmart. So disappointed. This store did not have either of the medicines suggested in an earlier post.

Last night I gave Mo Hawkins clean water and added a dose of Betta Revive. He's no better today. Worse maybe. It's so hard to tell.

He's still laying on the bottom and his breathing is labored. He will eat if he sees the pellet but I feel helpless. He's just suffering and it's not obvious what he's suffering from so I don't know how to help him.

Trying this and trying that and trying this again I think has done nothing beneficial for him.

Should I take him out of the Betta Revive and back into clean, clear water? Leave him in this for 3 days as the package says.

:0(
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:43 AM   #25 
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Sorry i know it frastrating, but you doing all posoble you can. And if it easier for you to know , bettas don't feel pain like we do , all he feels is just he is loved by you and he is just uncomfortable.That is why i don't like to euthonize them , i like when they die naturally. So don't thinik that he is suffering from the pain. And especially if he is eating sometimes it also saying that he don't have pain.
I have a few questions would you please answer them? Please put your answer right next to my questions:)It will be the same questions that LittleBlueFishlets actually asked you before. I think it very important questions to understand what is going on.
Did he ever had buoyancy issue?
Ever was bloated?
I think he was not constipated?
His poo never was white or broken white, clear wormy stringy shape?
I tried to read the posts again and i think you never said that he had any of the issue that i described above? And from the other post that you made prior and from that picture you posted looks like he has fin rot which is some kind of external bacteria.
And in one of your post you said that you treated him with aquarium salt and he got better?
I did ask LittleBlueFishlet to check on your thread again. I was thinking if it good idea to do aq salt on him again ONLY if he never had buoyancy issue , never was bloated . Meanwhile since you already have him in Betta Revive water just keep him in there and wait for LittleBlueFishlets to reply. She is not on the forum right now but proboble will be later on.
Sorry :(
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:14 PM   #26 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anhel123 View Post
sorry i know it frastrating, but you doing all posoble you can. And if it easier for you to know , bettas don't feel pain like we do , all he feels is just he is loved by you and he is just uncomfortable.that is why i don't like to euthonize them , i like when they die naturally. So don't thinik that he is suffering from the pain. And especially if he is eating sometimes it also saying that he don't have pain.
I have a few questions would you please answer them? Please put your answer right next to my questions:)it will be the same questions that littlebluefishlets actually asked you before. I think it very important questions to understand what is going on.

Did he ever had buoyancy issue? Yes. Still does.
Ever was bloated? Yes. He was over-fed accidentally.
I think he was not constipated? No.
His poo never was white or broken white, clear wormy stringy shape? No, none of those things.

I tried to read the posts again and i think you never said that he had any of the issue that i described above? And from the other post that you made prior and from that picture you posted looks like he has fin rot which is some kind of external bacteria. Yes, i definitely think he developed fin rot from stress/too high water temp.

and in one of your post you said that you treated him with aquarium salt and he got better? I did treat him with that and he was lively again but still had fin rot. Now he still has fin rot (although someone here thought it was tail biting which i'm nearly positive it's not). He is lethargic. Sits on the bottom of the tank. Looks to be struggling to breathe. He does still eat though if and when he "wakes up" and notices the food


I did ask littlebluefishlet to check on your thread again. I was thinking if it good idea to do aq salt on him again only if he never had buoyancy issue , never was bloated . Meanwhile since you already have him in betta revive water just keep him in there and wait for littlebluefishlets to reply. She is not on the forum right now but proboble will be later on.
Sorry :(

also i did purchase some maracyn ii today. The dosing has me all confused sine he's in a 2.5 gallon tank so i have yet to do anything with that.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:09 PM   #27 
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I went back to your previous thread. Here's a summary of that thread and this. Let me know if anything needs to be corrected.

- You got Mo (double tail) about a year ago. During this time, he's lived both at your work and home.
- In July, the temp was about 95F, so you brought him back to work where he immediately became listless and tattered. He's in a 2.5 gal filtered tank at 89F. (Ammonia levels listed as OK.) Aquarium salt added 0.2 tsp/gal.
- Someone at work overfed him. He was fasted and fed a pea.
- Photo from 7/22 indicates minor fin rot on the anal fin. There may also be tail biting, or catching on decorations.
- You state you've been adding Aquarium salt, but I don't see any amounts listed, or how often this is being done.
- Photo from 7/24 indicates fin rot on both the anal and caudal (tail) fins.

On this thread: 8/7

- He appeared to be getting better, and his fin rot was improving.
- You left for 4 days, and returned to find him lying on the bottom, barely moving.
- He was still eating, but seemed bloated so you fasted him and fed him a pea.
- He had been off aquarium salt for a week. You added aquarium salt again: 1 tsp/gal. Water temp 78F. Ammonia between 0-0.25ppm. Filter turned off.
- Photos from 8/7 indicate the fin rot has worsened. But main problem appears to be that he is lying on the bottom.
- 8/8 - You fasted him again and gave him a pea. He pooped green. You added more aquarium salt and turned the filter back on. He appeared a little stronger and more active, but was still resting on the bottom of the tank.
- 8/10 - You say he is doing better w/ regard to activity level and eating.
- 8/17 - You say he is back to resting on his side and darting "around the tank like a lunatic." He is still eating.
- 8/18 - Photo indicates progressing fin rot along the caudal (tail) fin. Compared to the photo from 7/24, his body appears more brown? Is this the case, or is it just the photo angle/lighting? Epsom salt was added (but I don't see a specific amount.) He has difficulty swimming and reaching the surface. You feel the Epsom salt made him worse.
- 8/20 - He is still lying on the bottom. Breathing is labored. He still eats when offered a pellet. Betta Revive was added, at some point. He still has buoyancy issues.
- You purchased Maracyn 2, but have not used it yet.

Is that a pretty accurate account of everything that's gone on?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the above is pretty much OK.... Fin rot is often caused by a bacterial infection (due to gram-negative bacteria). However, he also appears to have something internal going on that is affecting his buoyancy. I don't see any major bloating, and he doesn't seem to be constipated.

Is there any way you can order Kanaplex (kanamycin) online? It's not usually available in pet/fish stores? Kanaplex is a broad spectrum antibiotic (meaning it treats lots of bacterial infections). And it's one of the few antibiotics that treats both external and internal issues.

What type of pellets do you feed him?

Can you get any mosquito larvae? If so, feed him a few. Mosquito larvae are their natural diet, so they can digest them well and get lots of good nutrition from them.

Since he's still eating, it's important that you feed him frequent small meals. He needs good nutrition to help his immune system fight his.

What's the water temp right now? Is the filter on or off? How often are you doing water changes?

I would keep him in clean, warm water. Do NOT feed him any more peas. They can't digest these well, and it sounds like he isn't constipated. Instead, focus on good nutrition. Mosquito larvae would be ideal....

How high is the water level in the tank? If he's having trouble reaching the surface, you can lower it. But this also means you'll have to do more frequent water changes. Frequent water changes are required to keep the toxin, ammonia and bacterial levels low.

Kanaplex (kanamycin) would be a really good thing to try at this point. You'll probably have to order it online. Petsmart/Petco don't carry it, but another fish/pet store may have it or be able to order it for you, if you don't want to get it online.

If you can't get the Kanaplex, then you could try the Maracyn 2. BUT Maracyn 2 will only treat EXTERNAL (not internal) issues, and it sounds like he has both external and internal issues. Also, Maracyn 2 is much harsher on the internal organs (kidneys and liver) than Kanaplex. Since he's already having internal problems, I really worry that the Maracyn 2 could make them worse..... Again, KANAPLEX is your best option, IMO....

Keep us updated. Detailed, specific info is good. There's no such thing as 'too many' details with regard to his condition and the medications/additives that you're using, and his tank environment....

Last edited by LittleBlueFishlets; 08-20-2013 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:48 PM   #28 
GBS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBlueFishlets View Post
I went back to your previous thread. Here's a summary of that thread and this. Let me know if anything needs to be corrected.

- You got Mo (double tail) about a year ago. During this time, he's lived both at your work and home.
- In July, the temp was about 95F, so you brought him back to work where he immediately became listless and tattered. He's in a 2.5 gal filtered tank at 89F. (Ammonia levels listed as OK.) Aquarium salt added 0.2 tsp/gal.
- Someone at work overfed him. He was fasted and fed a pea.
- Photo from 7/22 indicates minor fin rot on the anal fin. There may also be tail biting, or catching on decorations.
- You state you've been adding Aquarium salt, but I don't see any amounts listed, or how often this is being done.
- Photo from 7/24 indicates fin rot on both the anal and caudal (tail) fins.

On this thread: 8/7

- He appeared to be getting better, and his fin rot was improving.
- You left for 4 days, and returned to find him lying on the bottom, barely moving.
- He was still eating, but seemed bloated so you fasted him and fed him a pea.
- He had been off aquarium salt for a week. You added aquarium salt again: 1 tsp/gal. Water temp 78F. Ammonia between 0-0.25ppm. Filter turned off.
- Photos from 8/7 indicate the fin rot has worsened. But main problem appears to be that he is lying on the bottom.
- 8/8 - You fasted him again and gave him a pea. He pooped green. You added more aquarium salt and turned the filter back on. He appeared a little stronger and more active, but was still resting on the bottom of the tank.
- 8/10 - You say he is doing better w/ regard to activity level and eating.
- 8/17 - You say he is back to resting on his side and darting "around the tank like a lunatic." He is still eating.
- 8/18 - Photo indicates progressing fin rot along the caudal (tail) fin. Compared to the photo from 7/24, his body appears more brown? Is this the case, or is it just the photo angle/lighting? Epsom salt was added (but I don't see a specific amount.) He has difficulty swimming and reaching the surface. You feel the Epsom salt made him worse.
- 8/20 - He is still lying on the bottom. Breathing is labored. He still eats when offered a pellet. Betta Revive was added, at some point. He still has buoyancy issues.
- You purchased Maracyn 2, but have not used it yet.

Is that a pretty accurate account of everything that's gone on?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the above is pretty much OK.... Fin rot is often caused by a bacterial infection (due to gram-negative bacteria). However, he also appears to have something internal going on that is affecting his buoyancy. I don't see any major bloating, and he doesn't seem to be constipated.

Is there any way you can order Kanaplex (kanamycin) online? It's not usually available in pet/fish stores? Kanaplex is a broad spectrum antibiotic (meaning it treats lots of bacterial infections). And it's one of the few antibiotics that treats both external and internal issues.

What type of pellets do you feed him?

Can you get any mosquito larvae? If so, feed him a few. Mosquito larvae are their natural diet, so they can digest them well and get lots of good nutrition from them.

Since he's still eating, it's important that you feed him frequent small meals. He needs good nutrition to help his immune system fight his.

What's the water temp right now? Is the filter on or off? How often are you doing water changes?

I would keep him in clean, warm water. Do NOT feed him any more peas. They can't digest these well, and it sounds like he isn't constipated. Instead, focus on good nutrition. Mosquito larvae would be ideal....

How high is the water level in the tank? If he's having trouble reaching the surface, you can lower it. But this also means you'll have to do more frequent water changes. Frequent water changes are required to keep the toxin, ammonia and bacterial levels low.

Kanaplex (kanamycin) would be a really good thing to try at this point. You'll probably have to order it online. Petsmart/Petco don't carry it, but another fish/pet store may have it or be able to order it for you, if you don't want to get it online.

If you can't get the Kanaplex, then you could try the Maracyn 2. BUT Maracyn 2 will only treat EXTERNAL (not internal) issues, and it sounds like he has both external and internal issues. Also, Maracyn 2 is much harsher on the internal organs (kidneys and liver) than Kanaplex. Since he's already having internal problems, I really worry that the Maracyn 2 could make them worse..... Again, KANAPLEX is your best option, IMO....

Keep us updated. Detailed, specific info is good. There's no such thing as 'too many' details with regard to his condition and the medications/additives that you're using, and his tank environment....
Oh my goodness thank you for the detailed reply.

Here is a pic of him from a few minutes ago. He's alternates between listless at the top of the tank and laying on the bottom. Still labored breathing.



Here is a link to a video I just shot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zADI5AXnb0


His filter is off (it's out of the tank completely actually).
Water temp is 83 degrees. Unfortunately, it's warm here again and there is no constant running ac in the house.
Water level is near the top again but I can lower it.
Water change was this morning - 25%.
He hasn't had a pea in nearly well over a week.

I worry he doesn't have much time left to wait for Kanaplex to get here. Should I just try the Maracyn 2 do you think? Or should I take him out of the Betta Revive water and just use clean/warm water?

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me. I feel so helpless just watching him suffer and don't know what I'd do without this message board.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:51 PM   #29 
ANHEL123
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LittleBlueFishlets logged out before she saw your reply . But i would definitely lower the water so it would be easier for him to get to the top. And do more water changes than 25% though, do daily 50%.
About medications if you have any small fish stores near you , may be they can carry Kanaplex?
Its a big plus that he is eating at least sometimes, if you can find mosquito larvae for him, or if you can't find larvae try to feed him with frozen blood worms you can easily find it at the pet store.
Medications: just like LittleBlueFishlets said that he probobly has external infection along with internal and Kanaplex is the best to treat both of them , but if you can't get it you can try Maracyn. Maracyn will treat only external problem though ...i don't think any one can tell you if it will or will not help. But i think if you can't get Kanaplex try Maracyn. And i would still do 50% daily water changes even with medications. Just redose required dose for that day with each 50% water change.
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:46 PM   #30 
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Betta Revive isn't going to do much right now. IMO, he really needs a good antibiotic instead. I wouldn't bother doing a water change to remove it though. Just do your water changes with plain (conditioned) water.

As Anhel suggested, you might want to call around to see if local stores carry Kanaplex. (Petsmart and Petco don't. But other places might.)

If you can't get Kanaplex, then go ahead and try the Maracyn 2.

Most fin rot is caused by gram negative bacterial infections.... And Maracyn 2 (minocycline) is a gram-negative antibiotic. So there's a chance it would work on the external fin rot, at least.....

Maracyn 2 won't work on any internal infection, though. (This is why I recommend Kanaplex.).... And it will kill bacteria in the water, which will reduce the numbers of 'bad bacteria' that he comes in contact with. So that's a positive thing, too.

So I do think Kanaplex is the better choice. But if you don't have that option, then yes, go ahead with the Maracyn 2.

------------------------------------------------
@Anhel - Not Maracyn (erithromycin). Maracyn (erithromycin) only treats gram-positive bacteria. So Maracyn 2 would be the better option, since it's effective on fin rot. (Maracyn is often good for stuff like eye infections though!)
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