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Old 08-25-2013, 08:20 AM   #1 
JayM
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Question Hope these aren't stupid questions...

We plan on breeding our marble CT, Sebastian:



with this gorgeous girl, Emerald:



From my understand, will the fry be mainly marble? Or will that be F2?
Still learning about colours & from reading the sticky above, that's what I've come to understand.

We will also be doing our black orchid CT, Darth Vadar:



with our bluey/red CT, Dory:



Fry will mainly be blue & red as black is recessive? If babies are bred, should get more black?
Hope I've got some of it correct.
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Old 08-25-2013, 09:23 AM   #2 
Ilikebutterflies
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I have only spawned one batch of marbles and grew them out. Both parents were marbles and around 4-5 months some of the juvies that I had given away turned marble. I have two more batches of marbles going now. I have one 4 weeks old and I can already see the opaque white coming in around his head(there is only one out of that batch)-I'll bet that one will be marble. I have about 200 hatchlings from the same parents as the single fry that I will be watching. From my experience with that first batch you should get some marbles in F1. Others are saying no and yes.

Your second pairing-are you planning to breed the best female back to the dad for black orchids? That is what I would do. Black orchids are easy to find homes for-I think black orchids are just stunning fish.

Last edited by Ilikebutterflies; 08-25-2013 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 08-25-2013, 10:39 AM   #3 
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The second pair have better rays, would go with them first as the first pair would need work during a couple generations.

Breed the darkest baby female back to dad for the colors.. :)
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:02 PM   #4 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilikebutterflies View Post
I have only spawned one batch of marbles and grew them out. Both parents were marbles and around 4-5 months some of the juvies that I had given away turned marble. I have two more batches of marbles going now. I have one 4 weeks old and I can already see the opaque white coming in around his head(there is only one out of that batch)-I'll bet that one will be marble. I have about 200 hatchlings from the same parents as the single fry that I will be watching. From my experience with that first batch you should get some marbles in F1. Others are saying no and yes.

Your second pairing-are you planning to breed the best female back to the dad for black orchids? That is what I would do. Black orchids are easy to find homes for-I think black orchids are just stunning fish.
Thanks Butterflies. :)
2nd pair - hope to get some females to breed back to Dad. We love them too.

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The second pair have better rays, would go with them first as the first pair would need work during a couple generations.

Breed the darkest baby female back to dad for the colors.. :)
Thanks Myates. Will do that for F2.
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:49 AM   #5 
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I like, that is very odd seeing marble in the F1 at least I have never observed that and I have spawned thousands of fish, got any pics?
Also Jay, I would not spawn the first male you show. Good pet fish but not so good as a breeder.
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Old 08-26-2013, 03:13 AM   #6 
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I've seen several spawns where there have been marbles in the F1. There also seemed to be a lot of cellophanes thrown in these spawns.

Darth, the market is different in Australia for bettas. The show scene is only just starting to really get off the ground and even pet quality bettas that are not red and blue VTs can be extremely difficult to find depending on your location.

I think the OP would definitely have a viable market for her fry if she bred Sebastian.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:00 AM   #7 
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Agree.. I know the IBC president has been working a lot lately trying to get things set up better in Australia. Standards for the US and Asia are a bit different, and the demand for different tail types/colors are different as well. The second pair would be a bit more in demand, but it comes down to what the OP likes the best :)

And marbles do pop out in F1 as YOUR F1 doesn't mean that the sibling pair you get is from an F1 and the parents may have a long genetic history of marbles. Breeding two marbles will result in marble in F1 as it's not like those two marbles one has bred is the first ones in their genetics to have marble in them :)
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Old 08-26-2013, 10:37 AM   #8 
indjo
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Hmmm no marble in F1? That's odd because I've always gotten the opposite - I always get marble in F1 - even if the specimen wasn't a marble but carried marble genes (I seldom,if ever, intentionally buy marbles). The percentage highly depends on how "strong" the genes are - if by any chance you bred to another marble or marble carrier, you could get around 60-80% marble. I always get marble for many generations even though I keep adding new non marble genes.

I agree with darth on not breeding the first male. His fins are curled. If this is genetic, it will be passed on to offspring. It's best to be safe and breed the second pair.
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:42 PM   #9 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myates View Post
Agree.. I know the IBC president has been working a lot lately trying to get things set up better in Australia. Standards for the US and Asia are a bit different, and the demand for different tail types/colors are different as well. The second pair would be a bit more in demand, but it comes down to what the OP likes the best :)

And marbles do pop out in F1 as YOUR F1 doesn't mean that the sibling pair you get is from an F1 and the parents may have a long genetic history of marbles. Breeding two marbles will result in marble in F1 as it's not like those two marbles one has bred is the first ones in their genetics to have marble in them :)
Again, I have bred MANY fish...and I still have not seen marbles in the F1..luck of the draw? I showed the parents, and they have strong marbleing in fact the parents of those fish were Green Lace X Black Copper Marble. that shows one was a solid and one carried marble the Black Copper line was VERY marbled, as I said..when I cross these siblings I am sure the marble will be there.

Last edited by Darth; 08-26-2013 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:19 PM   #10 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth View Post
I like, that is very odd seeing marble in the F1 at least I have never observed that and I have spawned thousands of fish, got any pics?
Also Jay, I would not spawn the first male you show. Good pet fish but not so good as a breeder.
He is a pet fish Darth. :) Was imported from Thailand to Qld then onto us.
We live in the country so no shows for our fish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBettaFish View Post
I've seen several spawns where there have been marbles in the F1. There also seemed to be a lot of cellophanes thrown in these spawns.

Darth, the market is different in Australia for bettas. The show scene is only just starting to really get off the ground and even pet quality bettas that are not red and blue VTs can be extremely difficult to find depending on your location.

I think the OP would definitely have a viable market for her fry if she bred Sebastian.
Yep is very different here. Local pet shop is mainly VT with a couple of CT occasionally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myates View Post
Agree.. I know the IBC president has been working a lot lately trying to get things set up better in Australia. Standards for the US and Asia are a bit different, and the demand for different tail types/colors are different as well. The second pair would be a bit more in demand, but it comes down to what the OP likes the best :)

And marbles do pop out in F1 as YOUR F1 doesn't mean that the sibling pair you get is from an F1 and the parents may have a long genetic history of marbles. Breeding two marbles will result in marble in F1 as it's not like those two marbles one has bred is the first ones in their genetics to have marble in them :)
Thanks, I like both of them, was just curious on the colouring as I'm still learning about the genetics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by indjo View Post
Hmmm no marble in F1? That's odd because I've always gotten the opposite - I always get marble in F1 - even if the specimen wasn't a marble but carried marble genes (I seldom,if ever, intentionally buy marbles). The percentage highly depends on how "strong" the genes are - if by any chance you bred to another marble or marble carrier, you could get around 60-80% marble. I always get marble for many generations even though I keep adding new non marble genes.

I agree with darth on not breeding the first male. His fins are curled. If this is genetic, it will be passed on to offspring. It's best to be safe and breed the second pair.
Pretty sure his fins aren't curled. He was swimming in the picture. Is very hard to get one of his where he's still.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth View Post
Again, I have bred MANY fish...and I still have not seen marbles in the F1..luck of the draw? I showed the parents, and they have strong marbleing in fact the parents of those fish were Green Lace X Black Copper Marble. that shows one was a solid and one carried marble the Black Copper line was VERY marbled, as I said..when I cross these siblings I am sure the marble will be there.
Will see what the spawn brings I guess re marbling in F1.
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