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Old 09-07-2013, 01:18 PM   #11 
ANHEL123
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Forgot to say , when you add salt 2tsp/gall make sure it pre mixed and dissolved (no salt crystals left)before you put it in the tank.
Blood worms try to feed and if he is not eating them then try to soak them in the fresh squeeze garlic juice. You can use garlic press and just put the blood worm in that garlic press it also good for the immune system and people saying it will stimulate his appetite. And even if he is eating them you can still try to soak them in the garlic.
Flakes, when you give them make sure you really crushed them up to the very little, tiny pieces . I know you probobly doing it.

Medications : Make dose of the salt 2 tsp/gall and next change increase to 3 tsp/gall try for another 3 -4 dose if he is not better then i think you need medications.
Is he really lethargic?
I would recommend to use Triple sulfa if you don't have allergy to sulfa or Maracyn plus, or combination both Maracyn and Maracyn II (one is for gram positive bacteria and one for gram negative)
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Old 09-08-2013, 12:59 AM   #12 
LittleBlueFishlets
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He doesn't look bad in the photo, but you said that one of his pelvic fins is lost almost to his body? What about his other fins - how quickly are they deteriorating?

You don't want the infection to reach his body. Usually, I don't recommend antibiotics for fin rot. But in aggressive cases, or where the fins are almost gone to the body, then I recommend using antibiotics.

Most aquatic infections, including fin rot, are due to gram negative bacterial infections. I suggest trying any one of the following:

Maracyn 2 (minocycline) - a good gram negative antibiotic. The downsides are that it's harsh on the internal organs, and it's been around awhile so some bacteria are resistant to it.

API Furan 2 or Bifuran or Jungle Fungus Clear - these all contain the same gram negative antibiotic. Unfortunately, I've started to hear that there's some resistance to this now, too.

Anhel suggested API Triple Sulfa or Maracyn Plus. These are broad spectrum sulfa drugs, which means they're effective against a wide variety of bacteria. So this would be a good option if you want something effective against many different types of bacteria. (Don't use these if you're allergic to sulfa drugs though.)

I wouldn't use Maracyn (erithromycin) right now. It's effective against gram positive bacteria. But most cases of fin rot aren't caused by gram positive bacteria, so I'd opt for one of the other ones listed above first.

Also, I don't use Aquarium salt and antibiotics at the same time. Both are eliminated by the kidneys, and I feel using both will put too much stress on the them. This can lead to other problems, such as fluid retention, bloating, buoyancy issues, etc.
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Old 09-08-2013, 05:21 PM   #13 
peeptoad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANHEL123 View Post
Forgot to say , when you add salt 2tsp/gall make sure it pre mixed and dissolved (no salt crystals left)before you put it in the tank.
Blood worms try to feed and if he is not eating them then try to soak them in the fresh squeeze garlic juice. You can use garlic press and just put the blood worm in that garlic press it also good for the immune system and people saying it will stimulate his appetite. And even if he is eating them you can still try to soak them in the garlic.
Flakes, when you give them make sure you really crushed them up to the very little, tiny pieces . I know you probobly doing it.

Medications : Make dose of the salt 2 tsp/gall and next change increase to 3 tsp/gall try for another 3 -4 dose if he is not better then i think you need medications.
Is he really lethargic?
I would recommend to use Triple sulfa if you don't have allergy to sulfa or Maracyn plus, or combination both Maracyn and Maracyn II (one is for gram positive bacteria and one for gram negative)
Thanks for the advice on the medications. He is not really lethargic, but he appears somewhat lethargic to me based on his previous demeanor (normally very active). In vet speak he is QAR (quiet, alert, and responsive), which is what I consider to be a step up from lethargic.
I think I will hold off on the Maracyn 2 until I finish another week with the salt. If there is no improvement from the salt, then I'll try the M2.

Still battling "food issues" with this fish... I picked up bloodworms and he just spits them out (like everything else). He does seem more "off feed" than he did before I left yesterday morning. I'll pick up some garlic tomorrow and try soaking them, but he seems to be a high maintenance fish in regards to food.

One other note: yesterday morning when I changed his water before leaving I thought, heck let me just check my tap water to see what kind of readings I get. Turns out my tap water with nothing in it is high in ammonia! (Using an API Fresh. Master test kit it read 1.0 ppm for virgin tap water). I add conditioner to his water anyway, but I wasn't expecting that...
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Old 09-08-2013, 05:23 PM   #14 
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Originally Posted by LittleBlueFishlets View Post
He doesn't look bad in the photo, but you said that one of his pelvic fins is lost almost to his body? What about his other fins - how quickly are they deteriorating?

You don't want the infection to reach his body. Usually, I don't recommend antibiotics for fin rot. But in aggressive cases, or where the fins are almost gone to the body, then I recommend using antibiotics.

Most aquatic infections, including fin rot, are due to gram negative bacterial infections. I suggest trying any one of the following:

Maracyn 2 (minocycline) - a good gram negative antibiotic. The downsides are that it's harsh on the internal organs, and it's been around awhile so some bacteria are resistant to it.

API Furan 2 or Bifuran or Jungle Fungus Clear - these all contain the same gram negative antibiotic. Unfortunately, I've started to hear that there's some resistance to this now, too.

Anhel suggested API Triple Sulfa or Maracyn Plus. These are broad spectrum sulfa drugs, which means they're effective against a wide variety of bacteria. So this would be a good option if you want something effective against many different types of bacteria. (Don't use these if you're allergic to sulfa drugs though.)

I wouldn't use Maracyn (erithromycin) right now. It's effective against gram positive bacteria. But most cases of fin rot aren't caused by gram positive bacteria, so I'd opt for one of the other ones listed above first.

Also, I don't use Aquarium salt and antibiotics at the same time. Both are eliminated by the kidneys, and I feel using both will put too much stress on the them. This can lead to other problems, such as fluid retention, bloating, buoyancy issues, etc.
Thanks, 'Fishlets. I think I will wait until I am done with the salt TX and then try the Maracyn 2 (Ialready have some) if I see no improvement from the salt. I might also give him 24 hours or so in between salt and maracyn to give his kidneys a break, but I don't want to leave that blackened fin too long without treatment. (It is not quite up to his body, but it is getting rather close for comfort).
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Old 09-08-2013, 07:56 PM   #15 
Morten
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You could try tempting your lil' guy with some frozen brine shrimp. My VT hasn't said no to them, yet, and he spits almost everything else out. He won't even look at freeze dried blood worms or daphnia (I was afraid of buying frozen ones for that same reason), but seems to be partial to shrimp.

This is in case he still refuses to eat. Something is better than nothing, I think, and this is what is currently working for my picky eater... hope he doesn't change his mind tomorrow.
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Old 09-09-2013, 03:47 PM   #16 
ANHEL123
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About frozen bw : i never fed my bettas with frozen food , started just recently. At first a few of my bettas didn't really appretiate them , but as i kept trying they eventually ate it.
Ammonia: If you can try to find Prime by Seachem , its the water conditioner that is most advised to use if you have ammonia in the water, because its turns the ammonia into ammonium for at least 24 hrs , and its less toxic .. So you can try that and see if you can lower the ammonia in the water. Some people get confused with the dosage instructions . So any bottle size that you buy is 2 drops per gallon. I put even 4 drops so don't afraid to ovedose if you put extra drop , may be it will help with ammonia.
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Old 09-10-2013, 06:49 AM   #17 
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Originally Posted by ANHEL123 View Post
Ammonia: If you can try to find Prime by Seachem , its the water conditioner that is most advised to use if you have ammonia in the water, because its turns the ammonia into ammonium for at least 24 hrs , and its less toxic .. So you can try that and see if you can lower the ammonia in the water. Some people get confused with the dosage instructions . So any bottle size that you buy is 2 drops per gallon. I put even 4 drops so don't afraid to ovedose if you put extra drop , may be it will help with ammonia.
I will look into the Seachem Prime... is it only effective temporarily? (i.e. will I need to continue to do daily water changes if the ammonia is only converted for 24 hrs?).
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Old 09-10-2013, 07:48 AM   #18 
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Oh, another thing I meant to ask:
Because there is ammonia in my tap water and the pH is fairly high (8.2) would it be feasible to mix distilled water and conditioned tap water (50-50 ratio)? I know distilled alone isn't good for fish, but would a combination of them reduce both the pH and ammonia safely? (and I did just order the Seachem Prime from Amazon, so I'll begin using that when I get it).
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:26 PM   #19 
ANHEL123
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Good question i would wait for LittleBlueFishlets to help. Not sure how better to do it since i don't cycle the tank and you are cycling your 5 gall. I don't think it good idea to mix the distilled water , but you can try to mix the spring water and see if it will helps. Also bettas are very adjustable to the pH. A high pH is really okay for all but a crowntail betta (in high pH, hard water, their fins curl).
But your main concern now is to lower the ammonia rather than pH. And i was thinking with frequent water changes and Prime you might able to do it.
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Old 09-10-2013, 08:47 PM   #20 
LittleBlueFishlets
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So your tap water has 1.0 ppm ammonia straight out of the faucet, and a pH of 8.2?

You can:

1) use a conditioner that temporarily neutralizes ammonia, such as Prime. (There are other brands that do this as well.)

These work by converting ammonia (bad) to ammonium (not bad). But they only do this for about 48 hours.

Since they only work for 48 hours, you either need to redose the conditioner every other day, or physically remove the ammonia-tainted water and replace it with better water.

2) Lower the pH via natural means such as tannins.

At a lower pH, ammonia will convert to ammonium on its own. This is good.

At a higher pH, such as your 8.2, the reverse occurs. Ammonium converts over to ammonia. This is bad.

You can add things to the water that leach tannins. Tannins have some antimicrobial properties (this is good), and naturally lower the water pH (also good).

Tannin sources include:
a) Indian Almond Leaves (IAL), which are found in Indonesia, where bettas come from. They can be ordered through eBay. (Do a search for Amy. Lots of people on this forum have recommended her.)
b) Oak Leaves (OL), which are common in much of North America. Be sure the leaves are pesticide-free. Rinse them off to remove dirt, and place the in the tank. They'll slowly leach tannins into the water.
c) Wood such as Mopani Wood, which can usually be purchased at petstores.
d) In a pinch, people have even used decaffeinated teas! The tan/brown color from tea is due to tannins.

3) Add bottled drinking or spring water. Be sure these say something such as "minerals added for flavor."

You don't want to use distilled water (unless your own water is hard). Distilled water lacks the electrolytes needed to maintain good health.

I prefer to use drinking water, or spring water, that specifically states it contains dissolved minerals (salts). These provide the necessary electrolytes.

Also, test for ammonia on the bottled water too. It's possible that the manufacturer disinfects the water with ammonia or chloramines. If this is the case, using that particular brand won't help you.

4) Cycling your tank.... is a whole different world though. There needs to be ammonia present, in order to begin the nitrogen cycle. I'm not particularly familiar with the process, as I don't cycle my tanks. If no one on this forum addresses this aspect, I would ask on the Bowls/Habitats forum. The people there are cycling experts.

How is he doing today? Any better?
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