Juvie Body Curl

[WetBetta]

I'm experiencing something from a spawn that I have never come across before and am wondering what's going on. I've done much research on the web and have come up with no answers.

They are juvies that I have split up into individual containers. About 3 months old now I'd say, give or take. 50% water changes everyday. Feeding alternating between flakes, blood worms, brine shrimp and pellets twice a day.

I have been fasting the ones that seem to have this problem for a few days now.

It first appears to be like a swim bladder disorder. But, with the added body/tail curling up. Two have been lost, can't say it's due to this but would seem likely.

I have also lowered the water levels and placed them in heated tubs of water. Still in individual containers.

Has anyone else encountered such a thing? I know it is one of the signs of TB, but it is the only symptom they have. I've looked closely with my magnifying glass and see nothing else wrong.

I've been treating as swim bladder disorder. But it doesn't seem to be working well... and the curling... makes me wonder.

Any help would be appreciated.

Oh... I posted this in the breeding section rather than the sick betta section because it's only the juvies from a spawn that seem to have this problem. Also, it seems to be affecting one of my other juvies from a different spawn now that for a couple of weeks seemed fine. Contagious?

Thanks!!

[Curlyfatbottom]

Is the body curling up or fin
What type are u breeding
Idk where u are but where I live I don't use my heater any more
It to hot to be running it
Lost a pair to overheat
A week ago I place one of my pair in jar to breed
Lost both of them in a day
Yeah there body curl up
Check your temp
Anything above 85 degree the adult size start to act weird

[Oldfishlady]

Can you post a video to give us a better idea of what they are doing.....

You say swim bladder type symptom.....buoyancy issue....can't get off the surface and curling at the base of the tail area.....

From spawn to 8 weeks of age.....what kind of food did you feed them/how much, water changes/water level, tank size, did you provide heat/humidity over the water, if so what/how, water temp, live plants, filter.....

What are you treating them with now....

[WetBetta]

I will try to get some pics and perhaps some video later... but to answer questions:

The type I am breeding: Male = Plakats, Female = Veil tails
Heat: I am in the south, but I do use adjustable heaters anyway for certain things. Heat has never gone beyond 83. However, when I initially jar them, they are w/o heat as most of my mature bettas are. I always provide heat during breeding and for the fry until they reach the juvie stage. I've had no problems with this in the past.

Yes, they have the buoyancy issue. I now have a magnifying glass and will try to see if I see any swelling in the swim bladder area.

Feeding... As fry, I fed them a regular varied diet. Micro worms, baby brine shrimp and Spectrum Small Fry Starter (a very fine powdered food). When they became larger fry, I fed micro worms, baby brine shrimp and began to give finely pinched flakes (Omega One). As juvies, I continued the finely pinched flakes, started on regular brine shrimp, small blood worms and small pellets (not the best of pellets, but small). I have discontinued the flakes, but continued with the rest. As fry, it's hard to tell how much you feed them. Especially using micro worms. The micro worms are my own cultures btw. But I always keep snails in the fry tanks with them to help eat excess food.

I use a bulb baster and a modified eHiem to clean the bottom of the fry tubs and water on a daily basis. This amounted to a water change of 50% to 25% about every 3 days. As juvies, I do a 50% change daily... using the baster.

Humidity I don't see as an issue... as it is very humid where I live and has not been an issue in the past. So nothing for humidity was added as fry. As juvies, they are in covered containers with 2 holes in the lids. So humidity does exist.

As fry, I provided java moss. As juvies, no plants. Bare containers. Has never been an issue in the past.

As fry, they had a filter after reaching 3 weeks of age. Upon hatching, I only provide a bubbler on low to assist. As juvies, no filter, no bubbler.

My breeding/fry containers are the Sterlite tubs. 12 liters... about 15" x 11" x 6". Depending on the size of the spawn... I will split the spawn up at around 3 weeks into other breeding/fry containers to provide more growing room. All are kept and fed the same.

I might add, I do not feed all those foods to my fry or juvies in a single day. I feed fry and new juvies twice a day. Gradually bringing the juvies down to once a day feedings.

I've had many spawns. This is the first I have seen like this. I have several juvies from one spawn that are actually smaller than the others even though they are only a week difference in age. But they seem to be affected worse. But again, there are perfectly healthy ones from that same spawn. I noticed the "S" shape body of a few before splitting up into juvie jars. BUT, one other from my other spawn seems to since have been affected. She has more of the "S" shape than the smaller juvies from the other spawn as she is larger. The smaller ones seem to only really curl their tails at this point.

I am treating all the same: Lowered water level. Floating containers in larger heated tub (80). I have added Betta Revive to help protect against any other invading illnesses that might occur due to being stressed with this problem. I have fasted now for 4 days.

I haven't taken a good look at them today yet. But I will and will let you know what progress, if any, or any changes.

It seems strange to me that some in a spawn could have TB and others wouldn't. As well, the curve is the only symptom. No lesions, not another thing. Scales are smooth and flat. No fin or scale (body) problems seen.

I will take a good look at them, I will have to remove medications from containers in order to do so, but I can replace the medication. I'm not thinking it's TB also because I use some of the same tools from container to container. I have over 100 fish. None of which have exhibited any signs of trouble.

Oh, and when I say tail/body curling... I know it's not the kind you normally see from stress and such. This is different. The entire body is involved.

[WetBetta]

Oh... and I had never bred either of the pairs for the spawns before. New breeders.

[Oldfishlady]

IMO/E...since it is in different spawns, not every fry/juvie and your husbandry sound good...it is most likely a deformity/birth defect.....they really should be culled...even if they recover it often will return as they mature.

[WetBetta]

Originally Posted by Oldfishlady

IMO/E...since it is in different spawns, not every fry/juvie and your husbandry sound good...it is most likely a deformity/birth defect.....they really should be culled...even if they recover it often will return as they mature.

That's what I am wondering too.