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Old 09-20-2013, 01:03 PM   #11 
rickey
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Let's deal with tannins and tanic acid first. Humic substances often called humins or tannic acids,Its weak acidity (pKa around 6) is due to the numerous phenol groups in the structure. The chemical formula for commercial tannic acid is often given as C76H52O46, when they are solutes, are a generic catch-all designation for a complex range of dark-colored, variously soluble aromatic organic molecules that result from the incomplete decomposition of plant materials, notably celluloses and lignin. Humic are almost 50% carbon by weight. The source of most of these particulates and humic acids in water is in terrestrial leaf litter through which rainwater percolates; some of this leaf litter gets washed into streams, where it continues its breakdown into humus. Humic substances are only very slowly broken down in water by a community of various bacteria and fungi. The end product will be CO2.

Humic macromolecules are as various as snowflakes: perhaps no two molecules are precisely alike. The two dominant functional groups in these massive molecules are carboxyl groups and phenolic ones. These sections of the complex structures have differing qualities that render the molecules polyelectrolytes; that is to say they are highly polarized, with surfaces that are positive and negative at different sites, though they have an overall negative charge at the pH values of natural freshwaters. Consequently, humic substances are chemically highly reactive: their negative-sum surface electrical charges "pull" ionic heavy metals from the water in the process of chelation and are also sorbed to metallic oxides.

In the aquarium humic substances contribute a desirable or undesirable golden tint to water, which becomes acidic blackwater when humins are sufficiently concentrated. They affect the pH, tending to lower it, and have some additional softening effect on water that is not highly buffered; humins affect the cycling and bioavailability of chemical elements; they repress many bacterial populations and affect the zooplankton: acidic blackwaters rich in humic acids have characteristically low populations of bacteria.
Humic substances interact with over 50 of the elements in the periodic table. These include plant nutrients, heavy metals and the halogens. All humic substances tint the water yellow to rusty brown, and all are able to chelate positively-charged multivalent ions. They can do this because the negative charged groups present in all humic substances attract cations that have a multiple positive charge, such as iron (Fe++ and Fe+++), calcium (Ca++) and magnesium (Mg++). Cations with a single charge, like sodium (Na+), aren't affected; that figures: you know that a peat filter won't "de-salinate" water. Once these divalent cations are bound to a big humic molecule, they have been taken out of circulation, as it were. If the humic molecule itself were adsorbed to granular activated carbon and then removed from the filter, some permanent water softening would be achieved.Tannins that bind iron frustrate water treatment engineers, who can't filter out chelated heavy metals
Do I have everyone totally confused now


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Old 09-20-2013, 09:04 PM   #12 
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If I understand correctly, almond leaves and possibly all leaves and twigs in general, lower PH and soften water and inhibit the nitrogen cycle. My question is how does this softening of the water and lowering of PH affect Betta fish? I thought bettas were a hard water fish, or am I wrong? How would this softening affect snail shells that want hard water?
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Old 09-21-2013, 07:19 AM   #13 
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WoW! That's fabulous. Thanks, Rick. May I submit that to moderators to have it included in "Freshwater Articles?"

Betta are softwater fish, Marsh; most tropicals are. While some of them put up with higher pH better than others, they never really "adapt," as you hear many people say. They just endure.

In direct answer to your query, Betta like it soft; snails like it hard, with lots of minerals like magnesium and, especially, calcium for strong shells. That's high KH (carbonate hardness) and concomitant high pH. Thanks, Olympia.

But I guess we all make compromises to get along in our environment.

Last edited by Hallyx; 09-21-2013 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 09-21-2013, 07:24 AM   #14 
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Well not all leaves. Tannin is from the German for Oak, And something have tannins without tannic acids Green tea and Red wine have tannins but very little tanic acid
Bettas come for fairly soft water but the Bettas we breed today are a long way remove from the wild Bettas and Bettas are one of the most adaptable fish on the planet. As far as snails go can speak to that.Just don't know

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Old 09-21-2013, 07:48 AM   #15 
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Quote:
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.... Tannin is from the German for Oak,
Geez...I love trivia like that. Now I can't get that Oh,Tannenbaum Christmas song out of my head.

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...Bettas are one of the most adaptable fish on the planet.
Which is the short way of saying they have the energy reserves and operational efficiency to increase or decrease osmoregulation to fit into their immediate environment. They do well in heat and cold for that same energy-efficiency reason. And in coping with low-oxygen and "icky" water conditions, Anabantids excel evolutionarilly.

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Old 09-21-2013, 09:35 AM   #16 
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Quote:
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Geez...I love trivia like that. Now I can't get that Oh,Tannenbaum Christmas song out of my head.



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Thanks, now it's in my head.
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Old 09-21-2013, 09:37 AM   #17 
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Much thanks to Hally and Rickey.
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Old 09-21-2013, 11:55 AM   #18 
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Thanks, now it's in my head.
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