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Old 10-18-2013, 01:24 PM   #1 
Aryia
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HM female standards

Hi everyone,
I was kind of curious. When breeding an HM long fin pair, the most basic standard for the male is that he has a 180 degree spread and that all his fins line and match up nicely. Is an HM female also supposed to express an 180 degree spread? I see many HM females on aquabid sold that look as if they have a large roundtail, will these females bear nice 180 degree HM long fins?

Thank you!
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Old 10-18-2013, 09:52 PM   #2 
bambijarvis
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Yes,you want the female to have a 180 spread too.

however, HM + HM doen't not mean you'll get all HM fry.
You'll get deltas and superdeltas(ones who don't have the 180 degree spread), too.
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:28 PM   #3 
indjo
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+1 bambi
Want to add - if your looking to get quality fry, look for females with as "D" a caudal. Even SDeT "D" shaped caudal can produce nice fry worth breeding further.
Those round caudal are harder to work with since they most probably produce rounded edged caudals.
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Old 10-19-2013, 02:54 AM   #4 
Aryia
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I'm having such a hard time finding good females to begin with :/ Finding a good color I like is hard enough, finding a good color + D caudal is a nightmare! I guess I'll just have to start somewhere hehe

Has anyone had luck crossing HM male with plakat females? I've seen some plakats with nice finnage and coloration. And I heard the offspring should be 25% HM, 50% HM/plakat and 25% plakat?
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Old 10-19-2013, 03:41 AM   #5 
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it would depend on the genetics of the fish.
Crossing with a PK, you'd get mostly long finned fish as short fin is recessive.
Unless the longfin parent carried short fin genes.

Generally long fin x short fin = long fined fry who are short fin geno. I've heard it can throw off the fin proportions if you're trying to maintain a good HM line, but I'm not sure.

If the long fin carried short fin genes you should see a good number of short finned fry.

HM x regular PK = long fin delta/super deltas,PK geno.
Breed the two with the closest to 180 degree spread and you should get a mix of short and longfin fry who have delta/super delta spreads. because the branching it likely going to be more than a 'traditional' pk, some still call them hmpk. I don't because hm implies a 180 caudal. They would be delta/super delta PK if short finned.
You /may/ end up with a couple who have a HM spread.

If you want to cross with a short finned female I would recommend a HMPK or DTHMPK(if you like the extended dorsal look).
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Old 10-19-2013, 06:11 AM   #6 
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Heres what happened with my line which was a hm x traditional pk.
Since trad pk is literally a short finned vt it is the same as crossing a hm to a vt.

In this case the male was carrying pk so luckily pk arrived in the F1.
But all fish had horribly round tails, ranging from vt to delta (some pk were 180 but had trad pk roundness).
I'm still trying to get rid of the round tails, it is the hardest thing to get rid of, even though the tails are now 180 with 4 rays its still too round.

I agree with bambi, if you want nice hm stick with a hmpk or nice hm girl. Stay far far away from anything with a rounded tail, it will become your endless nightmare

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Old 10-21-2013, 01:18 PM   #7 
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Wow those are some interesting color variations throughout the lineages O.o! And the last generation looks awesome hehe

I am actually breeding HMs, but want to use HMPKs to strengthen the rays of the HMs. I guess I'll keep looking, but it is so hard to find a caudal D in my area.
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