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Old 10-13-2013, 02:05 PM   #1 
WhitneyLin
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Cycling Help

So i posted a while ago and got a great guide from Blue Fish on fish in cycling. Unfortunately with Ty and his tail biting, im afraid of stressing him out too badly. So I decided to try to do a fishless cycle.

However, my mother has said no to pure ammonia (and as I live here rent free, im not gonna be arguing). So now im a little lost.

Here is the tank I bought: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752372&f=PAD%2FpsNotAvailInUS %2FNo

The tank is set up right now, filter on, and I put my 'in case of emergency' heater in the tank so it wouldnt be too cold. Its just a 10W non adjustable heater that I had on hand.

I included a pic of my tank. I had a spare silk plant that I could throw in and i bought a moss ball while I was at petsmart. I'll have to add the other decorations when I put Typhoon in.

First: will switching out heaters hurt the tank after its cycled? Once I can move Ty into the tank i'd like to put his adjustable 25w heater inside the tank instead of the 10w.

Second:should I swap out the filter cartridge for a sponge or something? Its a long filter, but not very wide to fit a sponge in.

Third: suggestions on how to get some ammonia in my tank since I cant get the pure ammonia? Should I add some of the tank water/gravel from the current tank he's in? Or some fish food?


And unrelated to cycling: Someone said something about a separate intake sponge for my filter? Im pretty clueless about filters. Though they kind of scare me. My friend had a filter that was so strong that when her algae eater went by it, it got stuck. She woke up in the morning to find it had sucked out the fishes insides

I think I had another question or two, but I cant remember them at the moment. Thanks in advance for the help.
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Old 10-13-2013, 09:46 PM   #2 
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Okay. I got some pictures of the filter. Ignore the weird see throughish looking part on the pic of the back. Its not really that way. Its just my crappy iphone pics.
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Old 10-13-2013, 10:58 PM   #3 
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I understand your reluctance to cycle fish-in while your fish has finrot. But fishless cycling using rotting fishfood or dead shrimp is really a foul-smelling uncontrolled method. It can be done, but nobody I've talked to would ever do it again.

I would exercise patience, treat your fish until he's healthy (lot's of water changes and warm water), and then proceed with your fish-in cycle.

If you're determined to go fishless, write to me and I'll give you the fastest method.
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:54 PM   #4 
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GASP! you got the tank! 8D it's looking so good! I really hope Ty gets better. I will be crossing my fingers for him. <3

(She woke up in the morning to find it had sucked out the fishes insides )
oh my... that poor fish D=

Does the waterfall filter seem to work well for you? like I said before, I never used it. I use small sponge filter. But may use the waterfall filter in the future. =)

have Hallyx help you on most of this. Hallyx helped me with my questions. ;)
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:56 PM   #5 
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He doesnt have any finrot that I can see. He has dark spots all over his fins so its a bit hard to tell, but I really dont see any black edging around the bites. He just bites when bored or stressed. He has a nice big chunk bitten out of his tail at the moment. Im worried that attempting to fish in cycle will just set him off even worse. (not to mention the ammonia spikes that already scare the pants off me)

I had thought of seeing if the petstore had any already cycled media that I could put in my tank...but I really dont trust them.

I was thinking about attempting to beg to use the pure ammonia. Still not sure I could convince my mother to let me bring it in the house. I dont even know how much it would be anyway :\
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Old 10-14-2013, 12:00 AM   #6 
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:) Yep got the tank. And I love it. Its really nice. I like the filter, its not too loud. I sleep with a fan on normally so I can use the white noise it makes. Im slightly worried that it may be a bit too strong yet. I might have to see if I can baffle the waterfall just a tiny bit. But that can wait till I see him in it.

:( yeah it got stuck on the intake and just ewww. We were just glad her son slept in and didnt see it first.
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:35 AM   #7 
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Originally Posted by WhitneyLin View Post
I had thought of seeing if the petstore had any already cycled media that I could put in my tank...but I really dont trust them.
Don't blame you one bit. Some keepers won't even use their own tanks for "seeded" media.

OK, bacteria is one element of the nitrogen cycle. The nitrifying bacteria is everywhere in the water and in the air. Your water supplier puts chlorine into your tapwater to kill bacteria, so your only access is from the air. The hardest part of cycling is having patience enough to wait for the bacteria to fall out of the air into your tank.

You can buy bottled bacteria. That is an additional cost that many keepers are willing to pay to speed up their cycle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhitneyLin View Post
I was thinking about attempting to beg to use the pure ammonia. Still not sure I could convince my mother to let me bring it in the house. I dont even know how much it would be anyway :\
And ammonia is the other element. You need both. You already know that rotting food or sgripm produce ammonia. Unforyunately they produce other byproducts of decompostion, many of which stink and foul your tank. They can also promote unsightly mold which is hard to get rid of.

To help avoid this, and to relieve stress (both the fish's and your's), I recommend you "cycle" your main filter in another tank. It's called a "Bucket cycle," and here's how it works.

Set up your large "display" tank complete with substrate, plants, decor and heater. Put in your fish by slowly acclimating him. You know how? Maintain his water quality by checking with a liquid test kit. Change 50% of his water whenever ammonia rises to 0.25ppm. You should do this anyway as part of water maintenance. Use Prime with water changes @2-drops/gal of tank size. Or use this guide:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/b...ations-115758/

Then, put the "large" filter into a small tank or bucket filled with conditioned/dechlorinated water.
---run your filter on high
---get a heater in there and turn it up as high as you can (>82*)
---put old fishfood in. In a few days it will rot and start making ammonia. Keep putting in more every day until your ammonia reaches >2.0ppm. Then stop feeding.
---Test every few days until ammonia starts going down. Then test for nitrite (See why I said you need a test kit?). Change water to keep it <2.0ppm. When nitrite goes down, look for nitrate to tell you it's cycled.

Then remove the filter and put it into your display tank. It will be virtually cycled, instantly

Read this to get a better understanding. http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/b...-guide-111960/

Ask any further questions here. Good luck.
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:17 AM   #8 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhitneyLin View Post

I had thought of seeing if the petstore had any already cycled media that I could put in my tank...but I really dont trust them.
A lot of the bacterias and what not that can infect our fish are ever present in the tank, so it's not like the media is going to introduce them since it's already in there.

I think that the benefit of having a cycled tank and the reduction in stress far exceeds the risk of catching something from the seeded petstore media. There really isn't anything more than paranoia driving this fear of using petstore media. Lots of what-ifs and speculation, not much experience on the matter to support that point of view. Honestly I think it's funny that one would take home fish but be afraid of the media.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:18 AM   #9 
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While I agree in principle with what Jaysee says, Betta, in their little cups, have not been subjected to the kinds of bacteria /virus /toxins that other, mostly schooling fish, get immune to in their large, community, petstore tanks.

Just a little innocuous cowpox virus, that Europeans had immunity to, decimated the larger part of the indigenous North American population who had no immunity.

There's no denying the benefits of a cycled tank for general health and stress relief. For a Betta a little extra caution can pay dividends in the long run.

Last edited by Hallyx; 10-14-2013 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:32 AM   #10 
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Thank you Hallyx! I didnt know there was a such thing as a bucket cycle. If I pick up a big 5g bucket I could try to cycle it out in the garage. In which case I may be able to use the pure ammonia since it technically wouldnt be in the house.

I have all the other stuff. I picked up an API Master Test Kit when I got the 5g tank. I guess i'll do a water change and transfer over his decorations tonight when I get home. It'll be nice to get him into the 5g as he had another tail biting episode. I had to do a 100% change yesterday as I thought the paint was peeling off the inside of one of his decorations. So the top part of his caudal fin is looking pretty ragged. Sassy boy.

Sorry Jaysee, but I just cant agree when it comes to bettas. Maybe if I was getting other fish from them. But like Hallyx said, they are kept in cups not in the community tanks. And if i've seen a dead fish in one of those community tanks, i dont want any media from them going into my tank. I would rather be too careful than lose my betta.
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