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Old 09-05-2013, 03:37 PM   #1 
lilnaugrim
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Help Me Diagnose

Yeah, even I need help sometimes :-/

Housing
What size is your tank? Normally the 33 gallon sorority, right now a 1 gallon QT.
What temperature is your tank? Normally 78-79, in QT is 80
Does your tank have a filter? Sorority does (1 Whisper EX45 another AquaClear 30), QT does not.
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? 33 has an airstone, QT does not.
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? 33 gallon sorority with 12 other Betta girls and 3 German Blue Rams

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? NLS
How often do you feed your betta fish? Once daily

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? Sorority weekly, QT daily
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? Sorority 30%, QT 95-100%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? API Stress Coat

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 6.5
Hardness: N/A presumably soft from driftwood
Alkalinity: N/A

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Anal fin deteriorating, splotches on body becoming discolored.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Not at all, today she's a little more clamped but she's the happiest, snarkiest sick fish I've ever encountered!
When did you start noticing the symptoms? A long time ago and she's been in an out of QT since then but it started to get really bad about three weeks ago and she's been in QT since then.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? First started with just AQ salt to give it a try since I didn't really know what was going on yet. Started with 1 tsp/gal then 2, and finally 3/gal. Nothing. So tried Furan-2 thinking it was a strain of columnaris, 5 day treatment and she just got worse. Tried one day of MelaFix; reduced dosage; clamped up hard. Another day of just clean water, happy as can be. Started KanaPlex today.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? Extensive, I bought her ill with Body Slime Infection and then velvet which was caught early and was treated successfully within a week. Never showed up again, got Ich with the rest of the sorority, treated successfully. And then the body slime thing started again.
How old is your fish (approximately)? Approximately around 5-7 months old

So I've had some major issues with this girl and she doesn't seem to be getting any better. I need opinions and hopefully some second diagnoses because I can't figure this one out. I thought it was Columnaris but apparently not. Furan-2 did absolutely nothing for it and she just got worse. Rembrandt and now Raven both have it, it starts on their nose around a face vent and expands from there. I did a course of MelaFix last night and it seemed to really help Raven but she was not looking to good but perked up once I put her in some clean water. Same happened with Rembrandt although he's still just sort of chilling out in his 3 gallon QT heated tank. I just did a water change on everyone in QT.

Also one of my new girls; the orange fancy one for those who follow my log, died today with absolutely no sign of illness at all. Yesterday she was a bit clamped but was happy to see me home, tested water today and nothing was off; a bit of ammonia but that's to be expected in the cups. She was completely colored up when she died and no signs of burns at all. Nothing was ever used on her except sorority water with Stress Coat for conditioner. So I have no idea what the heck was wrong with her and I'm very angry that I can't figure any of this out :-/

I started a KanaPlex treatment for Rembrandt and Matisse today, Raven is just in clean water since she was taking anything so I said heck with it, she's not as bad anyway.

Here's a sequence of pictures from just about a month ago when it really started, spacing them apart or together so you can tell which ones were from the same day.




A few days ago:


3 day's ago



2 day's ago:

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Old 09-05-2013, 04:57 PM   #2 
MattsBettas
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Have you considered the possibility of antibiotic resistant columnaris? Every single symptom is indicative of columnaris and it hasn't reacted to treatment...
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:00 PM   #3 
lilnaugrim
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I have not, in which case, what would I do?
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:47 PM   #4 
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Not really sure... You could try triple sulfa if you haven't yet and aren't allergic to sulphur meds, or H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) baths... Never done them, not sure how to, and not sure how a betta would be affected, but I know it saves lives in the guppy world.
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:53 PM   #5 
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Oh...of course the one med that I am allergic to I'll do some research on the Hydrogen Peroxide baths, thank you.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:45 PM   #6 
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So I just found this for H2O2 treatments. She is talking about just spraying the fish with it but I'm still concerned about giving them a bath:

"You can treat smaller fish by:
1. Netting the fish
2. In the wet net hold the fish such that it cannot flop around and the wounded side is facing up.
3. Using a pippete or dropper spray a stream of H2O2 into the wound to clear it of both debris and infection. This treatment should be coupled with an all around antibacterial as well.
EDIT: Avoid using this on extremely small fish [under 4 inches]. One would only have to imagine the gill damage if any of this got in there. Also avoid using this on extremely injured fish, this will only irritate the fish more and cause more harm than good. "


I guess I assume this is for just straight contact with the regular 3% H2O2 or do you think doing the bath might not be a good idea?
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Old 09-05-2013, 07:27 PM   #7 
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10 parts water to 1 part 3% Hydrogen Peroxide for 1 minute never dipped a Betta but Goldfish handle it quiet well. Works wonders for Gill Flukes

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Old 09-05-2013, 07:49 PM   #8 
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Apparently a qtip with the end dipped h2o2 works well, and you just swab the worst areas. Then you don't have to risk damaging the gills. If you are to do this I would do the anal fin and the splotches on her body.
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Old 09-05-2013, 08:01 PM   #9 
lilnaugrim
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Okay so I would net her and do this then? Should I try the Qtip first and then if I don't see results after a while do the baths? How often should I dab with the Qtip? Once daily?

Also Rembrandt has it on his "nose", between his eyes basically right behind his mouth.

Here's what Remmy looks like today:

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Old 09-05-2013, 08:43 PM   #10 
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Based on the first series of photos, and the listed symptoms - it definitely looks like Columnaris to me.

(However, the dot on Remmy looks like ich.....)

Kanaplex should work.

The furan meds usually work well on Columnaris, but as Matt suggested, you may have a strain that's resistant to them.

Maracyn 2 is a potential option. It contains minocycline, which is also a gram negative antibiotic. However, more organisms are resistant to minocycline than to the furan meds. So I'd stick with the Kanaplex. It's a newer medication, and there's less resistance to it.

You know the rest.... Lower the water temp to about 77F. Do frequent water changes to remove bacteria from the water. Etc.
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