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Old 02-08-2014, 12:55 AM   #1 
campbellsusa
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Exclamation Quick reply please! Filter off! Okay?

Today, it was recommended that I unplug the whisper filter, while treating my little friend. Now, he's staying UNDER the filter on the bottome, where the intake would usually pull the water up. Is he there because he knows that air was there before? I'm very concerned that he won't get enough air, without it, or some other type of "bubble maker, water mover". I need to go to bed now... because it's so late... but if someone experienced would please advise, I sure would appreciate it!

Summary... I had been treating Chemo for popeye and possible other bacterial infections, first with Melafix (until he became worse), then changed water and used Maracyn II, about 7 days, but he began to worsen again... lethargy and "vertically" hanging last night. After posting a new thread, several options were mentioned, so I've followed their leads. NOW, I'M CONFUSED! I think I'll put the filter back on, at least, until tomorrow. Someone PLEASE respond if you see this. I really concerned that he might die!
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Old 02-08-2014, 01:30 AM   #2 
dramaqueen
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If you're worried about him not getting enough air you could lower the water level to make it easier for him to get to the surface. If you have already tried meds I would just keep him in warm, clean water for now. Hopefully someone will come along who knows more.
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Old 02-08-2014, 02:25 AM   #3 
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I'm new to this but when I was treating mine for fin rot I was told to remove the charcoal (maybe filter media as well I can't remember) and replace it when the treatment is done. If the treatment has already gone through the filter then I don't know. Sorry I can't be any more help.
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Old 02-08-2014, 03:42 AM   #4 
jaysee
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Quick reply please! Filter off! Okay?

Yes, removing the chemical media is very important when medicating since it adsorbs the meds.

The fish has fully functional gills, and there is a lot more oxygen in the water than many think. Yes, you can leave your filter unplugged for a period of time if you like. I do it all the time - as I type this I have 2 filters unplugged that have been for some time now. I guess I'll work on them tomorrow since I have time.
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:45 PM   #5 
LittleBlueFishlets
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If you are concerned, you can remove the media from the filter, but leave the filter itself running (with nothing in it).

It's important to remove the media from the filter when treating with antibiotics. It absorbs the medications, thereby removing them from the tank. Also, the antibiotics kill the beneficial bacteria in the media, which means you'd need to redo the entire cycling process again.
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:06 PM   #6 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBlueFishlets View Post

It's important to remove the media from the filter when treating with antibiotics. It absorbs the medications, thereby removing them from the tank. Also, the antibiotics kill the beneficial bacteria in the media, which means you'd need to redo the entire cycling process again.

It's important to remove the chemical media, not all of the media.

I've treated with antibiotics several times and never lost my cycle. But that's just my experience. If one wanted to protect against that possibility, they can remove some of the media and keep it in a container of unmedicated tank water for the duration of the treatment. I don't advise removing all the media though, since it's not assured that the meds will kill the cycle.
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Old 02-09-2014, 01:32 PM   #7 
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Jaysee - Thanks for the corrections. I don't have filtered tanks, so this isn't something I worry about when medicating.

Question - Since most aquatic bacterial illnesses are due to gram-negative bacteria, but your cycle wasn't affected while using them, does this mean that the beneficial bacteria are gram-positive?

Hm, well, let me do some of my own reasearch now, and see if I can answer my own question.

It looks like many nitrifying (beneficial) bacteria are aerobic chemolithotrophic (chemoautotrophic) gram positive bacteria. (Nitrosomonas are gram negative though.)

So gram positive antibiotics such as erythromycin, tetracycline and ampicillin would kill many forms of beneficial bacteria. But gram negative antibiotics would kill relatively few.

Is that correct? If so, it would explain why you didn't lose your cycle if you used a gram negative antibiotic.
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Old 02-09-2014, 01:52 PM   #8 
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My explanation for why I didn't lose the cycle is that enough of the bacteria survived. I wish I had a better explanation but I don't. I don't get caught up in the bacteria naming game or any of the jargon, but I know a lot of people are into that.
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:01 PM   #9 
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Hi Jaysee, I'm just now getting some time to check here for responses to my "many" questions and concerns. Thank you for your input. I've read your posts, and want to catch you (all) up to date. Chemo was SUPER lethargic last night, I had changed another 50% of his water, and moved his plants around to support him if he needed to rest, I also removed the filter with carbon, and replaced it with a new filter bag. I have not added any ES or anything to his water thinking that all the changes were making him depressed! He remained at the bottom mostly, or hid from me almost each time I approached the tank. Worried that he needed to eat to gain some strength, I was able to coax him a little and he ate a few small hi-protein flakes (maybe 3-4 only), and as usual, I removed all the ones he did not eat. I awoke this morning and he was at the bottom AGAIN, looking weak and even sort of leaning on his side. I went to church, but upon my return he was my first priority. I checked and to my "Horror" found him there, on the bottom (not dead)... but something NEW and STRANGE had appeared in his tank. White "fuzz" covering the roots of one of the silk plants (only one)... not on Chemo. No fuzz, no slime, no spots, not fin rot or anything. It looked so "odd," almost like the filter material, not stringy or slimy... so I touched it with my baster... and it separated and floated around. I immediately removed it, and any "floaties" I could catch... wondering if I should make "yet another water change?" Wondering if this might be something akin to a "bacteria bloom?" but then, maybe something dangerous which might ADD to his misery? I tested his water, and ALL THE levels were good! Anxiously searching for answers about the "fuzzy stuff", I found threads which spoke about a similar reaction when using Maracyn II for their own treatment. Someone said if the aquarium keeps a "higher ph?" (which mine always seems to steady to 7.2-7.4), it kept the Maracyn from working. Is that true? That would mean that my 7 days of trying to help "Chemy" and his countenance seeming to worsen, was all in vain! Again, after my researching, I noticed others talk about using an anti-fungal, so I decided to use a Jungle fungus fizz tab, to see if that would make a difference! Well? After a few hours, Chemy seem to be more active, hasn't "camped out" at the bottom for long periods of time (a little), and he ate a few flakes again! He even came over to see me for a little while, and I gave him a little pep talk... "encouraged him to NOT give up on me. I told him he needed to be a "survivor too"... since he helped me "fight my disease" during my breast cancer experience (when I was given him as a gift). Chemo basically is lethargic, clamped fins, and tends to either hide or at times, goes to his "thermometer spot", where he almost vertically "hangs out" next to the plant there. Since you appear to be online, and quite knowledgeable... would you please help me understand???? HOPEFUL, yet still anxious!

Last edited by campbellsusa; 02-09-2014 at 08:07 PM. Reason: mis-spelled words and grammar changes
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:10 PM   #10 
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Little Blue Fishlets... thank you for your replies... I removed the filter with the carbon and replaced it with a new filter bag (only). I also turned off his filter for a few hours, because not only was he "hiding" under it, but he appeared to be getting "sucked up" somewhat, as when I unplugged it... he immediately, drifted down! Oh my goodness! I don't know if I can take more of this! My poor little guy!!! What am I going to do????
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