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Old 04-15-2010, 06:14 PM   #41 
Mister Sparkle
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Originally Posted by BerkB33 View Post
You've seemed to have deviated from the original issue which was whether or not 1/2 gallon "container" was an "optimal" environment for a betta fish.

These folks are here trying to enjoy the hobby they've chosen...not be critiqued by a self proclaimed "betta aristocrat."
No. The original issue was whether a 1/2 gallon was CRUEL or even inadequate, not whether it was optimal.

Your cries of "elitist" are equally deviant from the fact at hand, which was that this discussion turned quickly into a "you have to have 2.5-gallons or more because anything less is cruelty." If someone enjoys keeping bettas in 1-gallon nano-quariums, and they do it successfully, do they deserve to be run out of Dodge by the rest of you? I don't think they do. In fact, it appears to this observer that the board is already operating in a somewhat elitist fashion. Hence your "you just joined..." comment. THAT'S elitism, my friend. Not to mention a term like "low budget"...now, why would "low budget" be considered a bad thing? Unless you're an elitist, that is.

How passive agressive of you to try to twist this whole discussion around to be something it isn't. To reiterate, I have nothing against larger aquariums, or even with having less-than-ideal filtration in it. I do have a problem with people inappropriately stating opinions or preferences as facts or requirements, and trying to use accusations of cruelty to bolster their shaky case. When those people aren't exactly able to speak authoritatively on the subject, and just fire off the hip at naive views of how things "have to" be, I let them know they're off base.

The OP in this discussion was trying to enjoy the hobby he recently chose, not be chastised collectively by a bunch of GreenPeace hopefuls. Your take on this discussion is so incorrect that I don't even know why I bothered to respond to it. You need to go back and re-read it.
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Old 04-15-2010, 06:17 PM   #42 
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Mister Sparkle, what you say is very interesting. It's very technical. Lots of what you say are technical aspects of hobbying. Cruelty is a further step, but here it's very common for the poster to be in engaged in pathos-talk, or emotional/persuasive talk. But of course, it's not solely that. There is technical info (infused with pathos, maybe on occasion), but as I can see, it's not technical enough.

I know I prefer persuasive talk over technical talk (but both will always be included, as technical is usually hard-info). I see betta keeping more as a hobby, not as a job to keep on running.

Nothing but respect for you xxabc...I think you and I have provided a perfect example for how to see things differently, but respectfully. I guess I do have a somewhat technical view of things...and I appreciate the aesthetics, as well. Or else, I wouldn't be here!
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Old 04-15-2010, 06:23 PM   #43 
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Mister Sparkle, I like you.
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Old 04-15-2010, 06:25 PM   #44 
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I agree that a person that gets a betta and keeps it in a small container needs to understand that the water should be changed frequently to keep the fish healthy. As someone who keeps their bettas in smaller containers, I waws criticized, not on this forum but on another one which will remain anonymous. I keep up with my water changes and take the best care that I can of my bettas. I was told that I was abusing my fish! Right now, I keep my females in gallon containers and my males are kept in 1.5, 2 and 2.5 gallon containers. I do believe, however, that they are happier with more space. My Merlot proved that. When I moved him from a gallon container to a 2.5 gallon, he was much more active and built bubblenests.
Thank you! I think that really is the crux of the whole matter. I certainly couldn't argue about whether Merlot preferred his larger aquarium, as he's your fish...But I'm sure that his "needs" were met adequately prior to the move! A good keeper will make it work, whatever the conditions. I've known some bettas that just couldn't handle the 40-gallon. Of course, we're talking extremes here, but I think we can see eye to eye.
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Old 04-15-2010, 06:28 PM   #45 
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Mister Sparkle, I like you.
Growing pretty fond of you, too, Kittles!
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Old 04-15-2010, 07:43 PM   #46 
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Well then Mister Sparkles, I'm gonna leave it to you for the plain ol' technical talk with the newer to-be hobbyists. I'm going to stick with my side ;)
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:48 PM   #47 
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I think what it boils down to is how well you take care of your fish no matter what size container it's in. The person that said I was cruel to my fish thought that anything less than a 5 gallon tank was cruel. I just don't have the money or space for all 11 of mine to have their own 5 gallon heated, filtered tank.
And please, lets respect each others' opinions, even if we disagree.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:14 PM   #48 
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Well then Mister Sparkles, I'm gonna leave it to you for the plain ol' technical talk with the newer to-be hobbyists. I'm going to stick with my side ;)
It's a deal!
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:34 PM   #49 
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This analogy sounds good, but it is hardly the same thing. Keeping a dog in a kennel will cause serious physical problems in a very short amount of time. Keeping a betta in a 1/2-gallon bowl won't. Again, your desire to have your fish in something larger is admirable, and makes for more manageable care on your part. I'm glad that you feel that you are providing the best care possible for your fish. That's great!

But no false analogy or slippery slope is going to get us around the fact that a small space doesn't hurt bettas. The best argument you can use to recommend a larger aquarium is that it will be easier to heat properly, and that it will be less labor-intensive on the keeper. Trying to equate it to cruelty is just dishonest.
Truthfully, I'm not sure why I bother with you either, but since you gave a parting shot, here's mine. It's a personal scenario that took place during my ventures in to betta keeping. Purchased a yellow VT, not a $25+ betta, just a genetically inferior $3 model, anyway this "guy" had, as do the majority of the betta population in homes today, apparently spent much time in a "small container." His fins had "grown" while in these "less than adequate" conditions (IMO). The anal fin had developed this way for so long that it left them permanently "deformed." Now, I've purchased other bettas that had some "temporary" problems and given a "larger habitat" those seemed to "swim" the "wrinkles" out of the fins...however the yellow VT has not been that lucky. I've had him for about 6 months now...the fins are irreversibly damaged. IMO, the culprit was an extended cramped living environment. So...to say that it is "cruelty" to keep a betta in a 1/2 gallon or less...IMO is VERY TRUE. I'm sure you'll "slice up" this analogy as well, but, how'd you like to live in a porta-potty? Better yet...people CAN live in their cars...could that be considered cruel? Bottomline...the fish is "happier" and in more of an optimum living environment when a larger habitat is provided.

Last edited by BerkB33; 04-16-2010 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:44 PM   #50 
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I get spooked every time I see this thread has a new post. Just a little.
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