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Old 06-30-2014, 10:33 PM   #1 
Aryia
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Confused about and need critique on my spawn please!

My spawn is confusing me a little bit. I purchased a trio of white halfmoon bettas a while back, a plakat pair and a halfmoon long-finned female. Long-story short, I bred the plakat pair and the spawn is about 2.5 months old now. What trumps me is that everyone is short finned, but there is one long-finned sibling zipping in the tank which makes me think I might've accidentally paired the halfmoon long-fin female to the plakat boy.

Also the offspring all look like delta tails at best to me, though the father has really nice form. The only thing about him I wanted to "fix" is the smudges of color on his caudal fin, which so far seems successful since all the offspring are pure-white though I'm getting quite a headache from not seeing any 180 degree spreads in their caudal fins. Is it too early to tell still?

Some of the siblings are still tiny compared to the larger ones, would it be beneficial to the line just to cull the smaller ones? I'm not sure if it's the same case with fish but in mammals a lot of "runts" tend to have other problems that we can't see on the surface.

Here's the link to my spawn log
http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=338098

And here are the babies!





So my questions are:
1) Are these guys Longfin x Shortfin or Shortfin x Shortfin with one random outlier?
2) How in the world am I supposed to sex them if they are Longfin x Shortfin x.x and is there an easy way to sex plakats?
3) What do you think of the form of these babies? I notice some halfmoon females that are floating around don't have full 180 degree spread either, though I personally don't like seeing those labeled as halfmoon. Will these guys gain more spread as they grow/are they considered halfmoons or deltas at this point?

Thanks.. sorry for the fuzzy pictures and the.. short story gone long!
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Old 07-01-2014, 09:23 PM   #2 
Willpagenz
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You can sex plakats but the egg spot the female has... It may not be obvious now but as they grow older you will definitely be able to tell. Also long fin males will have really long fins... ;)
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Old 07-01-2014, 10:35 PM   #3 
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Well, egg spots are not reliable. But you can uses fins, size of eyes, and see if you can see their ovaries (triagle looking)

But I do see a double tail in the second picture. Upper left hand corner
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Old 07-01-2014, 11:42 PM   #4 
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there are also a few crown tail in there.... so that means you must have double tails, long fin, short fin (plakat) and crown tails... intresting
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Old 07-02-2014, 03:15 AM   #5 
Aryia
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The fish are all short-finned non-CT, non-DT except for the single long-finned individual that I took a picture of. The cross was between HMPK x HMPK or potentially HMPK x HM(long-fin) though considering how long-fin is dominant over short-fin I would've expected a lot more long-finned individuals unless I somehow only got one male in the entire spawn? That would be really weird odds. Hence I'm really confused. The jagged fins you're seeing is a flaw from the female, she has reduced webbing on her fins which I hoped the male's genes would correct, but it is definitely not CT.

I can't sex by the egg-spot as males potentially show a false egg-spot too. I need to be 100% sure if I'm going to re-home any of these babies, don't want someone to end up with a male in someone's sorority, or vice versa.

Also, fin length is a no-go since I suspect at least half of these guys are actually plakats. There are several pointed anal fins which indicate plakat males, though I guess I will have to wait till their ventral fins grow a little more. My theory right now is that the previous breeder may have crossed plakat x halfmoon, and the female is actually a cross, though even then I would except to see at least 25% long-fin males. Statistics is utterly failing me.

I need a better camera too x.x This spawn is killing me.

*Oh and the guy up in the corner... that's just my camera messing with us. They are all either short-finned or long-finned, no double-fins.

Last edited by Aryia; 07-02-2014 at 03:20 AM.
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Old 07-02-2014, 10:04 AM   #6 
indjo
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This is normal . . . in the sense that bettas have been excessively mixed bred so a dominant long fin might pop up in a PK spawn if the PKs had a long fin background.
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Old 07-02-2014, 11:40 AM   #7 
lilnaugrim
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Since these guys are mostly transparent to a degree you can put a light in the back of the tank facing towards you and look through the fish. I already see triangular ovaries in some of the females and so it shouldn't be that difficult to sex them!

Here's a preliminary picture I've drawn just to show where the ovaries are and what they mostly look like. Different females have different shapes to certain degrees but they're all pretty much cone shaped.
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Old 07-03-2014, 11:14 PM   #8 
Aryia
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Thanks for the answers. What are semi-longfinned plakats supposed to be labeled as? The little guy doesn't look like he'll reach full halfmoon length, but he's not a plakat either x.x

As for the ovaries, they should be below and a little further back from the stomach which is the dark round blobble right? Is there a standard color for the ovaries? (Or in this case, in white colored bettas?)
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Old 07-04-2014, 09:56 AM   #9 
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Yes, most ovaries are yellow-ish in color when full of eggs.
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Old 07-17-2014, 05:22 AM   #10 
Aryia
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I see a lot of girls o.o Do HMPK females need to have 180 degree caudal fins to be considered halfmoon? And what ray count do HMPKs usually have? Is it the usual 8?
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