What can I put in with my betta

[Posaune]

I'm sure the shrimp didn't shred the fish, but it is possible that the shrimp could do some damage to fins.
Carpenter, don't bother with swearing in front of God, it won't mean anything to a Buddhist. Just admit you are wrong and I'll be happy. By the way, until you quote the incorrect facts, there are none. Also, provide backup that they are indeed incorrect. That is scientific research. So far you haven't done any of that for any of your claims.
http://www.fishlore.com/profile-ghostshrimp.htm

Temperament / Behavior : Sometimes will eat baby fish, they are usually food for other fish, sometimes will fight among themselves if the tank is too small and there are too many of them.

You may see some aggressive behavior amongst them around breeding time.

http://therealowner.com/fish-aquariu...tes-paludosus/

It has a fairly peaceful temperament

http://www.eol.org/pages/1021997

. Females become receptive to males after molting, during which time their exoskeleton is soft. Copulation occurs within seven hours of molting. The male only recognizes the female as a potential mate if physical contact is made with her exoskeleton

In my case it could be that I happened to have a male and female, because the sparring of my betta and shrimp happened after a molt (I discovered the exoskeleton earlier that day)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palaemonetes_paludosus

I tried looking on Google Scholar (I think that's what it's called) and found only scientific papers regarding their taxonomy.
There is no distinct black and white in this world, everything is grey. Can you give proof that something in this world is ALWAYS this way, always, always, always? Or can you prove something is NEVER this way, never, never, never?
Saying a Glass Shrimp is NEVER aggressive is bound to be proven false. Just like saying a lion is ALWAYS aggressive is bound to be proven false. http://animal.discovery.com/fansites...ioness.htmlThe heart of the lioness would be my evidence on that.

On another note, I'm a woman.

[carpenter547]

sorry but so far you have quoted the same lines from the same texts on the same subject.

reread your first one from the shrimp farm agression in ghost shirmps is gererally against other shrimps as is thier predation however.

ghost shrimps will challange fish durring mating and feeding times.

however with that said i never said never nor do i ever claim to make absolute remarks.

what i was refering to was your claim that they shredded your bettas fins or that they were responcable for massive damage.

i have seen my larger shrimps attempt to hold on to thier food even against my 7 inch goby however not a single shredded fin have i ever seen.

you still have done nothing to support your stance that they are little killers other than take quotes outa context from a handful of sources who by the way all state that agression in general is not a problem or of any real concern for the aquarist from the real ghost shrimps and that in most all cases that agression has been a problem there has been found macro shrimps at fault.

just do your self a favor and hush. if you can't be bother to read the whole thing yourself don't post it as prof especially when it bears witness against you.

as far as my opinion that the shrimp farm has some incorrect info on it they do all articles do to err is human. i wasn't running them down. how ever there are quite a few more accurate more inclusive sites around.
the shrimp farm has no information on macro shrimps or really on any thing more than a hand full of necardia shrimp which is fine that is thier speciality however to use they as your primary info source for this purpose is well lazy.

you refered to me as an a-hole fine i admited now i challenge you to own up to your lack of knowlege and being to lazy or prideful to admit you made your statements in error.

[Posaune]

I never said it was tearing them apart, I gave ample information that says that those shrimp do indeed get aggressive.

So it's not too far-fetched to assume that a shrimp could dog a fish enough to tear fins.

This is what I said. No, it is not too far-fetched to assume that shrimp could go after a beta and snip at the fins. Never did I say they are little killers. Not once. I said they can indeed be aggressive, I have proven that they can be aggressive. I explained why they can be aggressive even if it it's TYPICAL for them to be aggressive.

It bears no witness against me, in fact it proves my case very well. My claim is that they were going after my betta, someone else claimed they shredded the fins. Please, listen to yourself and read everything first.

[Adastra]

I think this is a question of simple logic, really. The theory that your shrimp managed to inflict real damage to your betta just doesn't hold any water, regardless of their level of aggression. I have seen ghost shrimp charge at my hands, claws raised to defend whatever morsel they're eating, there is no question that they are territorial and can be aggressive toward other shrimp, fish, and hands, lol. But the worst you'd get from the shrimp latching on to the edge of your betta's fin would be the equivalent of a papercut and any healthy fish wouldn't stick around for more than that.

So to conclude, this argument is downright silly. It isn't a question of aggression level as it is physical improbability for a ghost shrimp to be taking chunks out of a betta tail.

[Posaune]

The theory that a shrimp inflicted massive amounts of damage is not mine and never has been. I urge you to look back and see who really posted that. I've been defending the theory that shrimp can indeed be aggressive. This is a silly argument, I agree. The person that did post about their betta with torn up fins was probably fin nipping, and most of the damage not done by the ghost shrimp.

[Adastra]

Then I fully support your statement that ghost shrimp are aggressive, although the consequences of that are mostly rather amusing rather than alarming. ;)

[FuulieQ]

I would think that if it was witnessed that the betta was dead and the shrimps were eating it, it would be more likely that the betta died first and was being scavenged by the shrimps than the shrimps chasing down and devouring the betta.

I was thinking about getting shrimps for my betta, and so far I've hesitated because I wasn't sure my betta would leave them alone - not the other way around. :l

[carpenter547]

ok sorry last post on the subject of shirmp and agression.

y'all *every one in the hobby* uses a loosely defined term to describe a set pattern of behavior.

in the context i use it i will define it.
agression is the credible display of serious intent to inflict damage.
example : My dog is agressive to other dogs he will lean foreward growl lower his tail raise the hair on his back and haunches and bare his teeth and will make mock lunges at almost any other dog in his yard.

attack is the completion of the treat to attack.
example my dog then got loose from my hands and ate that poor chiwawa *mexican pet rat*. :)

threat is the display of ability to inflict harm.
example my crawdad will raise its claws and act hostile every time i come by.

bs bullspud is the knowingly thowing out of false facts
example my ghost shrimp did serious damage to my betta.

you stated that you were defending some one else's statement. fine. the problem with that is you can't offer any proof that thier statement was correct. fine.

now bottom line ghost shrimps of the real speices are of no danger to any thing larger than fish fry or eggs. this has been my stance this whole time. yes they will try to compete for food or space given the right stimuli however that is about the same as a kinder gardener trying to keep a toy from a highschooler and that doesn't count as agression. ghost shrimps will eat and fight with dwarf shrimps yes they will and yes that falls under agression. however just because they will attack smaller shrimps and attempt to dissuade doesn't mean they will "shred" any fish.

this is not an arguement that requires two people makeing personal attacks.
when you see *'s i have made a personal attack i don't cuz it is pointless online.
this was not even a heated debate that requires emotion.
i don't emotionally care whether posaune admits i am right or not i am mearly answering or replying to her as it were.
this was a nice *fun* debate however.

next post my links to my info on ghost shrimp as it has been requested. sorry for the tardiness i have had time to make a point and set up links as this is a school year and i spend my days getting the kids ready for school or cleaning up the house bah ;)

[carpenter547]

one source link

http://www.petshrimp.com/glassshrimp.php this is one of the articles wiki pedia quotes as a source.
the wiki pedia article is here sorry can't find it any more.

http://www.theshrimpfarm.com/shrimp/...-glass-shrimp/ scroll down to the bottom to the section special notes.

http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.ed...paludosus.html doesn't mention fish attacks does discribe how to tell them from other shrimp families though.

http://therealowner.com/fish-aquariu...tes-paludosus/ no mention of eating fish however rather informative about this species.

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/inv/ghostshrimp.php mentions agression to other shrimp but no mention of fish eating either.

http://www.fishlore.com/profile-ghostshrimp.htm is wrong about thier burrowing right about the rest still no mention of fish attacks.

http://www.petfish.net/ghost.htm a few wrong facts but still no mention of eating fish.

sorry but outa all the links i have and have reread not one of them talkes about shrimpzilla eating fish *other than fishmeal flakes etc.* and 2 of the above links offer an explanaition to the fish attacking ghost shrimps in that they are mislabled other species one even give an example of a typically mislabled shrimp speices.

i would quote them like you do but that wouldn't be helpfull and my laundry needs to be folded njoy.