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Old 10-23-2010, 08:50 PM   #11 
CodeRed
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That's exactly what happened, DQ. The tank didn't have a top, the the couple rarely fed the snake. It was shown to be pretty emaciated and skinny. Plus, the bite marks looked to be defensive bites. The snake might've simply been roaming too close to the child, the child decided to "play" and the snake reacted like any animal would when harassed. It's a shame that it happened. The boyfriend and mother were reckless and stupid, the child and snake paid the price.
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Old 10-23-2010, 11:41 PM   #12 
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I agtee. One thing I don't understand, and this doesn't have anything to do with the Florida case, is why people would want to keep venomous snakes or smakes that are aggressive and dangerous.
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Old 10-24-2010, 12:36 AM   #13 
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Venomous snakes I do not understand at all. I will NEVER keep venomous snakes. It's not worth it. They may be beautiful, but they're a beauty that can kill. Most hots (venomous) are aggressive. You can't handle a hot, can't socialize them.
As for aggressive nonvenomous snakes, well.... they're like dogs in this regard. If you don't "train" them right they can become aggressive. The owner must be dedicated to the animal. If they are, if they consistently hold and bond with the animal then odds are you'll have a calmer snake. In some places in Asia gigantic pythons, over 20 feet long, are treated like dogs. It's because they're worshiped there, and are treated with respect and kindness. They act like dogs, too. They sleep with the children, and give them rides. They're trusted and cared for. Oddly enough, they come home if you try to set them free, LOL. It all depends on how an animal is raised. It's the same with almost every animal. Fear and disregard creates aggressive, dangerous animals. Love and kindness creates a calmer, gentler animal. It's the same with cats, dogs, snakes, fish, birds, I could just go on (: It's human error that kills, not animals.
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Old 10-24-2010, 12:59 AM   #14 
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This is because they are an issue in such warm climates. Whether the snakes are released by careless owners or not, the snakes that are on the ban list can reach rediculous sizes and once they get to be of size, if they want out of the container they are in, they will get out. They are incredibly strong. It is good and bad at the same time. Now people will just drive out of state, buy a snake, put it in the car and drive back to FL...doesnt too much stop people. Unless of course now you have to show a valid drivers liscense to buy a snake in neighboring states....

Its SOME snakes that ACT like dogs. (dont hate me for this as I LOVE reptiles, amphibians, and all critters) yes reptiles are smart, but they are not as docile as cats and dogs. They see you and know certain things (tricks or what not you may have tought them) but you cant verbaly tell a snake roll over and it do it. wont happen in a million years. They act more wild than your dog would, especially when in a wild habitat. People buy these snakes because its "cool". yea its cool until its 12ft long and you have not a clue what to do with it...I say if you want a snake, stick with something that fits in a standard tank, not one you need to build a tank for thats the size of a truck.

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Old 10-24-2010, 01:39 AM   #15 
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There are some very dedicated herpetologists I know who keep large and 'hot' snakes.. not for me, but there are some people I can accept keeping them. They treat them with respect and work with them--for preservation, the creation of anti-venom, and educational purposes, not because they are 'cool'. They show such a high amount of respect for their animals, and do not try to handle them, they just give them proper care and work with people in the field about the snakes, often rescues from idiots who bought them, or saved from people trying to kill them for 'magical' uses in other countries. These are the people who do what zoos SHOULD do, keep animals safe, teach people about them, and give them the proper care they deserve. Honestly I've seen better home situations for reptiles then zoos.. A zoo by my old house actually had a small cage full of 4 beaten male iguanas and one very exhausted looking female! You wouldn't see that in a responsible herpetologist's home.

It has actually been herpetologists donating the venom of their reptiles that has helped scientists discover not only anti-venom, but other healing chemicals as well! I actually believe there is some toxic frog that they discovered helps heal muscle problems that is actually in a lot of medicine! Weird, huh? But these are a special breed of people, different from the normal person who just thinks cobras are 'awesome'

As far as large snakes, I don't agree with people getting them who aren't prepared. When I see a 16 year old who bought a burmese, I just shake my head cause I know that snake will be on craigslist the next year when it's already hit the size most common pet snakes get and is still growing fast!

If you want a large snake you need: experience, time, money, ROOM, people to help, EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE, and a huge respect and love for the species! Not everyone who gets the large snakes don't know what to do with them, many responsible snake owners have large constrictors live their full lifespan happily and healthily, with a comfortable space to live, no possible escape for them to get into trouble, and enough food to keep them satisfied.

Big snakes aren't for everyone. There are very few who really can keep them, but I've seen people--adults with 18+ years of reptile hands-on experience who feel they can tackle it and want to, those people can. And it's sad because those people are the ones really being hurt by this!

The ones who shouldn't own large snakes are the ones most likely to purchase them illegally anyway, there's already a big enough black market for reptiles, I fear these laws will just push them to grow even more.


The only 'hot' I would ever keep is a rear fanged whip snake--it's venom is about as potent as a bee sting(although still could be deadly if you were allergic--but there have been no recorded deaths from these animals) But this would be years in the future, and I don't mean 4-5, I mean 10+ when I've been keeping reptiles for much longer and have the experience to handle the gorgeous creatures. Any of the true venomous.. Well, I'll just watch those from afar..and look at their pictures. Some of them are just breathtaking, but I would never in my life want to go near one.


My view: Irresponsible people are causing problems, and lack of education makes it worse. People don't realize that not all snakes get to enormous sizes, and that even the ones that do often never reach those sizes! Plus, the amount of people releasing their snakes in the wild is less than originally thought, blood tests have shown the majority of the snakes in the everglades are related--clearly from a single 'release' which they believe happened when a pet store ended up damaged in a storm or hurricane. It's frustrating to me because I actually research my animals, and while I do not have any of the 'dangerous' ones, I know how I would feel if my animals were taken away because of the idiots in society doing wrong, worsened further by the need for a good story in politics. Fear is a terrible thing when it is caused by the lack of knowledge.

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Old 10-24-2010, 09:05 AM   #16 
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People who are new to snakes should have to take a class or something before buying so they can learn about proper care and handling. Then maybe some people would change their minds about getting something that they can't take care of. I'm not a snake person myself but I've learned a little bit about snakes because of you, CodeRed. I have more respect for snakes because of your love and enthusiasm for your snakes.
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Old 10-24-2010, 09:57 AM   #17 
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This is only the start folks......the animal rights people have been pushing for many years to end the pet industry...all of it.....last year HB669 failed and that one was going after the tropical fish, inverts, herps and if it passed you would have only been able to keep the species if they are native to your area....and the next plan if that bill would have passed was banning cats, dogs, horses, rodeo etc......

Some of the animal right corp use the money you send them for lobbyist, congressmen etc.....to create bills banning all the pet industry........and these people will not stop until they get it done

As pet owners it is up to us to not give these people any ammo or reason to give these bills merit and power......be responsible pet owner....don't release pets into the wild, spay and neuter...etc......
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Old 10-24-2010, 10:29 AM   #18 
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The duty is up to ALL pet owners to join together to say no to these bills, not just the individual hobby that's getting attacked. They Will Not stop at herps, like OFL said. Once herps are gone, they'll move onto birds. Fish. Horses. Cats. Dogs. They'll try to take us down one by one, since taking us all down at once failed. If we, the different hobbyists, don't help each other out, we could lose this fight. The reptile hobbyists already lost an important fight. It isn't ABOUT whether you like the animals or not, it's about the freedoms. We should be able to own pets we want, provided we can care for it. No matter what the law is, there'll always be people who break it, who do things stupidly. Why should the rest of the country have to deal with it? YES, I think all people who own animals than can be classified as "dangerous" should have a permit and should take a class of some sort. That alone would diminish the amount of people who get them. There will always be someone who gets a snake through the black market, doesn't like it, and sets it frees. People do that with all animals.
This bill WASN'T about the burms down in Florida, it was about how much they could manipulate the population into believing the snakes are a huge, epic problem down there. Do you want to know the estimated number of snakes down there, really? Maybe about 3,000. FAR FAR less than the 117,000 that the government said. After last winter? Probably far less.
Last of all, this bill was a huge waste of time. It stops you from moving your snake across state lines and even keeping your snakes. What'll happen to those snakes, when their time limit is up? The problem that started this in the first place, careless keepers, will choose to let them go, rather than have the added expense of putting them down. Yes, you read that right. This bill will add more problems, not stop them. It's a stupidly thought out bill, one created by someone who believes they're all powerful.


One thing I should point out... Age doesn't always mean you are or aren't fit to have a reptile. Sometimes teenagers keep better care of their animals than adults do. Research, time, and care makes a keeper, not age. Now, I'll be reasonable and say you should probably be at least 16+ before you ever get a large snake, duh, but I'm not saying that because of their age, that 16 year old is going to be a worse owner than a 43 year old.

It got incoherent, now xD Good luck reading it. My main point was the fact that the bill wasn't about the actual snakes xD
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Old 10-24-2010, 12:27 PM   #19 
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In my view, the only thing age helps is experience! A 43 year old first time snake owner would most likely be a far less suitable owner to say--a monitor than a 17 year old who has been keeping and breeding herps since he was 10 with his parents! It's the experience! And as far as big snakes go--strength! You gotta be able to lift that 150 pound beast! lol! :)

I'm all for it. I'll happily support the other pet owners out there. Even if I don't keep birds at the time or saltwater fish or anything, it drives me crazy how we animal hobbyists are painted as 'cruel'.. I know my animals have a wonderful life, the only things they are missing out on are diseases, predators, and humans invading their territory! All my herps, cats, dogs, and my bird get exercise, food, shelter, everything they would search for in the wild. I give each animal more than the recommended space for them and the ones who need UVB get times where they can get natural sunlight! When they get ill, I treat them. I'm a responsible reptile owner and I have taken the few years of experience I have gotten trying to learn as much as I can so I can be a better keeper and I can do the very best possible for my animals! I don't like hearing how they would be better off in the zoo--while there are some phenomenal ones, generally in reptile care they are lacking! The one I used to go to uses the same rulebooks from 30 years ago..Before we knew anything about what animals needed!


But anyway. Yes, it's all about politics. That's what the Human Society of the United States IS! They aren't a humane society, they are a political group pushing their agenda, that's why they don't rescue animals, and THAT is what you are paying 19 dollars a month for on those awful commercials. I still can barely grasp just how little of that makes it to the animals you see--1 dollar?? In the whole YEAR? Way to go HSUS, very 'humane'


I'll happily support the pet industry. I believe the keeping of animals raises our awareness and the want to help the animals in the wild. Growing attached to them, having them close, being able to save an animals life..makes us want to save more. If people didn't have pets.. I imagine there would be many, many more extinct animals out there. We wouldn't care as much! We see it talked about here on this forum every day--the people who don't have fish and never have don't value their lives, those awful videos of people swallowing goldfish, killing their bettas, etc. They don't care because they don't KNOW, not to mention most of them are sick human beings. But you don't see as many people doing those things to cats or dogs--honestly I believe because more people have had contact with them and value them as pets--members of a family!


But whatever, it's hard to talk about this subject without getting ranty lol!


And I agree, permits should be needed for dangerous animals--And I think they should be gotten not just through money, but through training. You should have to pass a test, like a driving permit, and it should need to be retaken every few years or so. That way, the only people able to get the large animals clearly KNOW the dangers. People won't buy a hatchling thinking it's cute and not realize that the animal gets to 7+ feet! Because pet stores will be required to say it's one of the large ones.

Also think the commonly abused should need a small permit, maybe not as expensive, but should require knowledge. Iguanas and turtles to name a few!

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Old 10-24-2010, 02:10 PM   #20 
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It's the bad pet owners that ruin everything for the responsible ones.
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