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Old 07-13-2010, 08:35 AM   #31 
FloridaBettas239
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So for a couple more dollars you can get a good quality betta off the net. For just a little more than petco.
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:56 AM   #32 
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I'm not against breeding VT. In fact once I have a set up where I can afford to keep lots of unwanted baby veils I plan on doing a project line of VT. My point is that unless you have a goal (I would like to do a line of Giant Veils) you shouldn't be breeding at all. But that is for anything, not just pet store fish. I expect unless I can find someone else who has been breeding VT that my starter genectics will be from pet store fish, that's fine with me because I know what I want to get out of them.

Breeding for the sake of breeding is what I am against.

My other point in my post was directed at those who say they don't want to spend a lot of money on a pair. If you take the proper amount of time to do research (which IMO is at least 6 months) it should be fairly easy enough to save enough to get even a cheap pair. It's easy enough to find fish that are $5 and $10 plus $15 for shipping in the US. That's about $30... over 6 months that is a little over .16c a day.

That being said. If you have two fish you want to breed AND have a goal in mind for that breeding AND have the fiscal and spatial resources to deal with the consequences of that breeding if you can't find proper homes I see no problem in breeding pet store fish. Personally (with the exception of a VT line) I will probably never breed pet store fish, but if other people wish to do so it is not my place to tell them its wrong.
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Old 07-13-2010, 12:25 PM   #33 
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I just want to add that purchasing from AB, does not guarantee quality. Unfortunately, in a breeders quest to create a new line, you have betta's that should have been culled, but are now given a fancy name and people buy into it.

Breeding this betta is more irresponsible than breeding a VT off of Walmart shelves.
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Old 07-13-2010, 12:44 PM   #34 
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Obviously there is a dark side to breeding, and it produces deformities like short-bodied fish. I agree with you that short-bodied fish shouldn't be bred (it seems unlikely to me that that fish even could breed because it wouldn't be able to wrap properly..) But do keep in mind that this is a huge trend in breeding and has been for hundreds of years--people are motivated to sell these fish because look at the success of fancy goldfish; in the fancy world, the more grossly deformed the better. Telescope eyes, outrageous wens, kinked spines, and bubble eyes are gross deformities that are suddenly not just acceptable, but desirable when it comes to goldfish. Also just about everything comes in "balloon" form these days--balloon mollies, balloon rams, balloon pearl gouramis, even. Society sees these fish as beautiful, personally, I see them as miserable and doomed by their deformities to suffer with chronic problems and inevitably have a shorter lifespan. This is a large scale ethical problem in more than just the betta community.

Anyone who's looking into breeding bettas should do enough research to know better than to choose an x-factor fish. Also, it seems to me that purchasing your first starting pair is one of the cheapest aspects of betta breeding. If you don't have enough money to invest in a nice pair, then you probably don't have enough money to be breeding anything.

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Old 07-13-2010, 01:05 PM   #35 
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Agree 100%. Obviously there has to be some demand for short bodied betta's, I just hope the IBC does not accept these. In my opinion, this fish looks miserable and I can't stand to look at it.

When you think about it, I am sure at one time, Koi, Dalmation and Marbles were considered a deformity and now look at the demand for them.
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:12 PM   #36 
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Another thing is when you start to get into pure breed bettas. Most of us search for what to look for in a good betta. Or if your really into it they join the IBC and then see the standards for a betta and what they should look like. So when you see something like that fish above you shake your head, and mabet send a email asking wtf is going on. And thats why people shouldn't breed if you dont no what there looking for then there just carless breeding with no regards to the fish to the breed. I have nothing against VT. I love halfmoon's the next person might love crowntail's. Each person has there own style but dont just breed because, and dont breed something that you really dont no what it is. beside's what you see on the outside. but you dont see what the genetic's are hiding.

My friend tried to breed a red fish into his line because he wanted to do anal fin improvment's. Well after those fry grew up he started breeding the red back out. And a year and 2 spawn's later the red is finally gone. Or so we thought he had his beautiful white bettas and then went to breed them and out of no where they threw some red babies. First off let me say red is very hard to breed out. But what im trying to get at is. these pet store breeders are not looking to better the fish. there just wanting 100's and 100's so they breed x fish with y fish and then with red fish blue fish. So you never no what your going to get and that's why there called mutt's. You could do something with a pet store betta it would just take so many spawns before you washed everything out and kept what you wanted, and it would take a lot of spawns to start getting fin improvment's. So instead of taking all these huge step's backward's. Just study about the fish for a couple months. Which will give you time to save for a decent pair of betta stock that you can work with.
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:22 PM   #37 
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I would consider anyone who breeds for short body or "big ears" (blegh) an unethical breeder. Stuff happens but that is why we cull. DBT is a deformity that is quite popular and it takes a very ethical breeder to breed DBT because you get so many spinal deformities, etc.

There are unethical breeders in any domesticated species. Its up to the consumer to learn enough to be able to say "I'm staying away from that breeder, he's a bad egg".
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:27 PM   #38 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1fish2fish View Post

There are unethical breeders in any domesticated species. Its up to the consumer to learn enough to be able to say "I'm staying away from that breeder, he's a bad egg".
That is the key. If no one purchases these betta's, I guarantee we will not see them posted on AB next month.
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Old 07-13-2010, 02:52 PM   #39 
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I believe that too. But there are still people out there dumb enough to buy them. They thing huge pectoral fins are "cute" and stumpy bodies are funny. I even saw a "breeder" on ebay who was selling "miniature bettas.. only 1 inch".. if you want a small fish BUY A NEON TETRA. That makes me so mad. It's one thing to mess with color and fin shape, but when you start to alter the internal structure of the fish (for the worse) that is where I draw the line.
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Old 07-13-2010, 03:48 PM   #40 
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I just want to back up for a minute.

Just because beginners breed pet store bettas doesn't mean we don't have goals in mind. I have a grasp on what I want from breeding, even if it is a pet store pair.

But yeah, that short-bodied fish just shown made me very sad.
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