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Old 08-08-2010, 06:25 PM   #21 
PeiMai
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Originally Posted by Lion Mom View Post
You got good advise about the ph business - let it be. Your fish will adapt.

As far as the supplement goes, I don't know. I hear the vast majority of them don't work, but maybe somebody with more experience with those will be along to answer.

BTW, what brand bacteria supplement is it?
It is TopTin bacteria supplement. 'my fish hasn't been purchased yet as I froze the one that died last and am going to bring his corpse back to that h@## hole and ask for my money back and tell them I'm through. The supplies they have are nice enough but I am not impressed by their animals at all.
While I was at the other shop I spotted a 'Comb tail' in a nice red. I was amazed at lively they seemed to be. This shop keeps them in confined quarters but with access to the same water as the rest of a larger FILTERED (read also clean) tank I was amazed! They were strutting around occasionally puffing themselves up a bit, which I never saw any of the fish do at the other stores.
Checked the water again (I'm becoming obsessive I think) after dinner tonight its at about 6.8 still(not bad for tap water?!) I have not added any of the supplement as I am still questionable about it and don't feel like screwing this up again. Any input would be HIGHLY appreciated.
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Old 08-08-2010, 06:28 PM   #22 
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IMO-those cycle products are a waste of time and money..especially when it come to small tanks, due to the water changes needs for a healthy fish in small tanks...you are going to siphon it off anyway....
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Old 08-08-2010, 06:32 PM   #23 
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IMO-those cycle products are a waste of time and money..especially when it come to small tanks, due to the water changes needs for a healthy fish in small tanks...you are going to siphon it off anyway....
Just to keep things straight the bacteria supplement you think is a waste of time and I shouldn't cycle the tank (somehow)?
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Old 08-08-2010, 06:49 PM   #24 
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I'm not trying to speak for OFL, but if I understand right you have a 2g tank, correct? If so, then yeah, you shouldn't take the effort of cycling your tank. Please scold me if I'm wrong ><

The point of cycling (you might already know) is to keep the 3 important aspects of a large tank in check: Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. These three chemicals are deadly to fish in large quantities; nitrate being the acception as its almost 4 times more tolerable by fish then the other two. In larger tanks, being cycled simple means that the bacteria required to transform ammonia into nitrite and then further into nitrate, have been established into good colonies. This effectively reduces the need to do large water exchanges as the begining ammonia build-up in the tank has been transfromed to a less harmful chemical (nitrate).

However! This is generally only used for 5 gallon tanks and larger (Or so I believe, I'm sure quit a few people do it in 2gs as well *Shrugs*) because as you can imagine, doing a 100% water exchange on a 10 gallon tank would be quit tiresome...

In smaller tanks, like a 2 gallon (Which is easy to do a 100% water change on) it doesn't necessarily matter if the tank is cycled or not. The reason behind this is as stated before, its small enough that a 50% water change on it every-other day will take most of the harmful chemicals away anyhow. Of course, you will eventually need to do a 100% water change though every week or two to clean all objects in the tank as well to rid any kind of build-up.

I can only speak from so much experience though, I hope I didn't provide you with any false information, and if so I think I'll be correctly rather quickly lol ^_^



-To keep things simple-

Answer: Yes, the bacteria supplement is a waste of time due to the amount of water exchanges you should be performing anyhow, the bacteria will simply be washed away before being able to establish any colonies.

Last edited by Kokonoko; 08-08-2010 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:06 PM   #25 
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That is correct on the most part
With the small tanks they need more frequent water changes regardless of filtration or cycle stage.

In small tanks with a filter to maintain water quality they need twice weekly 50% water changes with substrate cleaning with one of the twice weekly changes.

Without a filter they need 1-50% and 1-100% weekly water changes to maintain water quality for fish health and fins.

In a sense-cycling is moot because of the needed water changes to maintain water quality in small tanks-these water changes will keep the ammonia and nitrite at safe levels, with filtration the tank will cycle with the fish as long as you don't over feed and remove uneaten food or other wise foul the tank and provided that over cleaning of the substrate or filter media are not done.

Regardless of filter or not or cycle-regular water changes need to be done to maintain water quality....cycling and filter help give you some wiggle room so to speak when life happens when dealing with a closed system.
You have more than just ammonia and nitrite or too high of nitrate..you also have DOC's that can only be removed with water changes.
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:19 PM   #26 
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Originally Posted by Oldfishlady View Post
That is correct on the most part
With the small tanks they need more frequent water changes regardless of filtration or cycle stage.

In small tanks with a filter to maintain water quality they need twice weekly 50% water changes with substrate cleaning with one of the twice weekly changes.

Without a filter they need 1-50% and 1-100% weekly water changes to maintain water quality for fish health and fins.

In a sense-cycling is moot because of the needed water changes to maintain water quality in small tanks-these water changes will keep the ammonia and nitrite at safe levels, with filtration the tank will cycle with the fish as long as you don't over feed and remove uneaten food or other wise foul the tank and provided that over cleaning of the substrate or filter media are not done.

Regardless of filter or not or cycle-regular water changes need to be done to maintain water quality....cycling and filter help give you some wiggle room so to speak when life happens when dealing with a closed system.
You have more than just ammonia and nitrite or too high of nitrate..you also have DOC's that can only be removed with water changes.
Ammonia Nitrite nitrate Docs Arrrrrrgggh what did i get myself into lolI kind of figured that the filter would help seems only to a certain degree. Isnt it possible to be over cleaning? to sterile an environment? Just asking.
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:36 PM   #27 
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HA! I asked the same thing! Lol Although I think the response diffirs depending on tank size, so since you have a 2 gallon, I'm unsure of a correct reply. =(
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:48 PM   #28 
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I'm about half a step away from bringing this thing back to petco returning it and setting up the ten gallon cycling it building a baffle for the power filter and calling it a rap. I had cichlids when i was a kid and they were never this much work. They were over filtered all to heck(ugf and power filter) I never drained water off only added water as it evaporated and NEVER had an issue and those buggers are dirty dirty fish. Actually If the bottom got dirty I would use a large sifon house and clean the gravel it was a 20 gallon tank with a couple of dwarf cichlids and they lived for years. I fid it hard to believe that all of these water changes are necessary...but I'll do it. You guys seem to swear by it and from the looks of all of your fish they are bright and healthy so..Wednesday hopefully I pick a good one.

(they have a 10% off freshwater fish sale every Wednesday)
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:59 PM   #29 
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(they have a 10% off freshwater fish sale every Wednesday)
Rofl. Well, this is more a personal choice then anything else. I would say if you have more experience with a 10 gallon tank and you feel more comfortable with that, then sure! I guess I should mention that a 2g is perfectly fine as well though. Although, I would suggest taking a few days to maul it over. These kinds of things are often spur-of-the-moment deals that pop up in our heads. *Shrugs* but if you're dead set on it, theres nothing wrong in that.

Having a 2g isn't as much work as it may appear in text, lol. I do a nice cleaning on my 10g about 3 times a week with water exchange and it only takes me about 15 minutes or so. I could imagine for a 2g it would be dramatically less. *nods nods*

Last edited by Kokonoko; 08-08-2010 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 08-08-2010, 08:08 PM   #30 
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actually it was my experience the larger the tank the less work it was past the 10g point but thats me...and i was maybe 15 so who knows that was almost 15years ago(I'm dating myself). I'm thinking once I bring the fish, Bacteria supplement back I'm just going to shoot over to the other place and try to pick out a nice responsive fish and go for it. I'll probably be on here constantly. And Yes OFL I will post pictures as soon as I get my new guy (maybe even of Pete too if anyone is interested.)
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