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Old 08-11-2010, 12:21 PM   #11 
vaygirl
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For aeration you can add an air pump with an airstone on the end. Tie a knot in the tubing and tighten/loosen to make the bubbles smaller so they don't push your betta around. You could also get a valve that does the same as the knot but really a knot is just as effective.
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Old 08-11-2010, 12:29 PM   #12 
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I thought I had mentioned it in my OP, but it doesn't appear to be the case.

I had intended to get some Cherry Shrimp and some snails (not sure what kind) and a tank cleaner (not sure what kind, especially since I'm already high on the bioload) another pet store guy showed me a tiny little silver sucker type, stuck to the glass - he said they're very efficient
I would hold off adding any more livestock at this point, especially while cycling.
Also, if you are talking about the CAE or Chinese algae eater-they grow too big for 10g and their diet changes as they age and soon will be sucking the slim coat off of slow moving sleeping fish.

Once cycled and maybe re-homing some fish or a bigger tank- both shrimp and/or snails are great additions to the tank, however, we as the hobbyist are the best clean-up crew...lol.....other livestock only eat or clean up some stuff...not all.....
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Old 08-11-2010, 12:44 PM   #13 
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The 1in/gal rule is out dated and often misunderstood-for example-by that rule we should be able to put a 10inch fish in a 10g tank......

You also have to stock in regards to the adult size of the fish, not the current size, after all our goal is to keep fish long term.

You also have to stock with the fish social needs, swimming need, territorial needs in mind.
When these needs are not met, often the fish can become stressed and stressed fish can have compromised immune response and in turn soon become sick and/or die.

The nitrifying bacteria are sticky and adhere to everything in the tank like the-walls, decoration, plants both real and fake, in the top layer of substrate and in the filter media-very little are in the water column itself-so water only changes will not up-set the cycling process.
During a fish-in cycle with a high bioload-daily 50% water changes may be needed, if not twice a day to keep the water safe for the fish long term health.

With a high bioload or over stocked tank even after cycling you may need to continue with more frequent water changes.

You also have to remember that 10g tank is not usually 10g of water-it is closer to 8-9g depending on how deep you have the substrate and what level you fill it.

Adding an airstone may be helpful as well, baffling the filter is good in some cases...not so good in others.....

What about another tank...20g maybe....this is an addictive hobby.....lol......

And to add, I rather enjoyed reading your post.......at least you space between paragraph and that sure helps old eyes...laffs....
LoL Thanks for the last comment - I hear that!

I have already talked to the wife about getting a much bigger tank - but we are in an apartment (and working on a baby, since we just got married in May - though we've known each other 20years, we didn't know we liked each other! doh!) and I haven't worked in over a year and a half... (am in IT and have lost several jobs to India so far...) annnnnnyway, at some point, I can see having at least a few much larger aquariums, and maybe turning this little 10g tank into something else...

By the time we got to this thread, I had added a bunch of the bacteria (all of last week) and it seems to have helped, so we are farther along in the cycle process than we would be had I not added anything. That being said, it means I can also back off all chemicals (except chlorine treatment) and go strictly with water changes

I understand about stocking based on the adult size of the fish - and for some strange reason, I thought I had done that... I don't know what made me think that was the case, since it is obvious that I'd need a 20g to properly house everything in this tank... but I'll be carefully monitoring these guys for now... we'll see what happens...

I have an idea... if I get an airstone and put a sponge filter on it, and also put a sponge filter on the Whisper filtration pump (to prevent the waterfall), I'll still have filtration AND oxygen feeding into the tank, AND more space for the bacteria to grow, AND it will also slow the movement of the water (though it also takes a little bit away from total water volume, but since I'm stuck with this many fish in this tank for now, I need to find a workable solution to keep them all healthy and happy - another tank is not an option right now...)

I took a few pics but can't get them posted yet - soon though, I hope. Need a better one of Omen though...
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Old 08-11-2010, 12:48 PM   #14 
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I would hold off adding any more livestock at this point, especially while cycling.
Also, if you are talking about the CAE or Chinese algae eater-they grow too big for 10g and their diet changes as they age and soon will be sucking the slim coat off of slow moving sleeping fish.

Once cycled and maybe re-homing some fish or a bigger tank- both shrimp and/or snails are great additions to the tank, however, we as the hobbyist are the best clean-up crew...lol.....other livestock only eat or clean up some stuff...not all.....
Sorry, I should have specified that I was going to wait until the tank is cycled to add anything (if I add anything at all) - and will have to test water parameters regularly to know if it is possible.

I'm not sure what the name of the fish was - it was tiny, maybe 1/2", and silver... I got the impression it would stay small, but maybe not... I could always try something like a leopard or tiger ...um... forget what they're called ... though I only have gravel on the bottom, no other substrate, so that might not be enough for their type

so much to learn! and good to know that I am expected to clean the walls on occasion... the question now is, how often will I have to do that, and should I use the squeegee kit I've seen at the pet stores, to scrape the inside walls of the tank, to remove algae...
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Old 08-11-2010, 01:46 PM   #15 
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I understand having to work with what you got....lol and it sounds like you have a good handle on things......

On the walls, I just clean the front wall and leave the back and sides unless you can view the fish from the sides and then just leave the back wall dirty, this provide a place for good bacteria, micro nutrients and a place for the fish to feed off of.

I only clean my walls when I can't see in...lol.....since I keep tanned water the tannins make my front wall brown with the stain so I use a razor blade every week or two and scrape it off so I can see in better

Do deep vacuuming once a week in all areas that you can reach without moving everything with 50% of the water, and depending on you water prams-ammonia/nitrite 0.25ppm or greater- between water changes- make a water only change of about 50%.....50% is a good rule of thumb

You don't want to over clean the substrate or filter media

Anytime the fish are acting odd or change in behavior-make a 50% water only change to rule the environment out first as the cause.

Every couple of months I would move the decoration around and vacuum under them and maybe even rearange a bit for more interest for you.

Anytime you see your nitrates go over the 20ppm mark-make a deep vacuum and give the filter media a good rinse in dechlorinated water or better- old tank water with the water change-ideally you want the nitrates in the 5-10ppm area-too high of nitrate can affect the fish immune response and too sudden of change can shock the fish too, especially when you add new fish from low nitrate water to high nitrate water.

Have fun and enjoy your tank...they are great stress reliever once they get established.

That is how my husband and I hooked up as well-we knew each other most of our life and one day we realized it was meant to be......and due to kinda late in life and second hubby thing for me...we had to move fast to get that baby made before I was too old....lol......its funny how the perfect mate can often be right under your nose the whole time......

Good luck with the baby and finding that job in this tough economy...thank goodness I am retired......

Last edited by Oldfishlady; 08-11-2010 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 08-11-2010, 03:43 PM   #16 
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Keep an eye out for used 20 gallon tanks - they are CHEAP when you find them.

You can look at classifieds, yard sales, craigslist, resale shops, Goodwill, St. Vincent DePaul's and even, if you want, run a wanted ad in your local paper.
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:47 PM   #17 
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Keep an eye out for used 20 gallon tanks - they are CHEAP when you find them.

You can look at classifieds, yard sales, craigslist, resale shops, Goodwill, St. Vincent DePaul's and even, if you want, run a wanted ad in your local paper.
Thanks to all :) Great advice. Thankfully I can take those pieces I am able to incorporate and find a way around the rest.

I like the idea of getting a used tank, but the problem is space - my wife's mom has scleroderma and she lives with us, so, while we are in a 3 bedroom, there are three adults living here, with lots of stuff... I gave away a lot of stuff before moving in here, and still don't have quite enough room.

I'll keep my eyes open though! Thanks again :)
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Old 08-11-2010, 09:34 PM   #18 
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I can only comment on snails right now, but I've actually been finding (And this is after talking to 3 veteran "snail" hobbist on diffirent sites for hours on end yesturday) that snails aren't great for tropical fish tanks, despite common misconception. *Shrugs* I'd go into more detail, but if you do decide to research on them, know that there are -plenty- of sites with little to no detail on the care of apple snails, and very few with actual 'tried and proven' results.

Also, they're very inefficient cleaners as well. Not only do they descrete a large amount of waste verse how much waste they 'clean', but they also contain a micro-organism in thier intestinal track which clouds the water quit quickly.
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:08 PM   #19 
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I can only comment on snails right now, but I've actually been finding (And this is after talking to 3 veteran "snail" hobbist on diffirent sites for hours on end yesturday) that snails aren't great for tropical fish tanks, despite common misconception. *Shrugs* I'd go into more detail, but if you do decide to research on them, know that there are -plenty- of sites with little to no detail on the care of apple snails, and very few with actual 'tried and proven' results.

Also, they're very inefficient cleaners as well. Not only do they descrete a large amount of waste verse how much waste they 'clean', but they also contain a micro-organism in thier intestinal track which clouds the water quit quickly.

Very interesting info, thanks for that. I'll be waiting until the tank is cycled before adding any more anything... I'll be doing cherry shrimp and some kind of bottom dweller... more research required there, but I do like the look of the tiger or leopard ... wish I could remember their name - they're a catfish, I think... but that may be too big... argh so much to learn ! LoL
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