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Old 08-12-2010, 11:19 PM   #1 
sgoheen08
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Please help my betta!!

Ammonia: When I measured it with the Testing kit—it was DARK green (between 4-8!!) This was before I did a partial water change 2 nights ago.

Ammonia tester used (salicylate or Nessler-reagent based?): ? the kind where you put 8 drops of one in a tube and another 8 drops in another to combine it with the water your testing..

Nitrite: Slightly pink on the tester strip at .5?

Nitrate: Same as Nitrite

Are you testing with dipsticks?: yes

pH: 7

KH: 40

Temperature: Was 74.5 because of the wrong reading of the stupid sticky thermometer but is now 75.8 after turning on his heater for an hour or so and getting a digital thermometer.

Heater: yes but the smallest you can find for 1-3 gallons—cannot keep the temperature stable!

Water change amount/frequency: It turns out I accidentally forgot to change his water one of the every other so his water was about 3 weeks old (no partial changes..had no idea I could do partial changes) I always put him in his temp bowl (.5gallon) with aged water and dechlorinator while I clean his tank and add new water/dechlorinator and then let it sit for 24hours and then I return him to his actual tank (1.5 gallon in size)

Tank size/how long in operation: Currently, 1.5 gal tank with a flourescent light…I got him in one of those small betta divider tanks but the tank was all to him. After I found it to be leaking (and barely caught betta before he had no more room in the water) which this is where it all started because I think he caught something after sitting in his dirty small amount of water for a couple hours maybe while his tank was leaking.) I had no aged water on hand when this happened so I quickly made some with bottled water and put him in a temp tank. My boyfriend went and bought the 1.5 gal tank which I then aged the water, and dechlorinated. I was never told to do Ph testing, nitrite, nitrate, or ammonia testing levels. I researched and found this out on my own. But my tank had already been up for about a month before I found this out.

Filtration: Whisper filter with pump( I have to buy a new one every other month because it constantly just stops flowing…it still sucks up stuff but does not pour out the spout)

Water additives/conditioners/pH adjusters: TopFin or betta conditioner..whichever is easiest at the time.

What, how much and how often are the fish/frogs fed: He used to eat a few pellets a day (not soaked as I did not know to do this). After he stopped eating completely (after the leaking tank mishap) I tried feeding him flakes and he didn’t want those either. For about 3 weeks, I kid you not, he would not eat! I finally researched other types of foods and bought him gel bloodworms that come in the pouch and I have NEVER seen him act so crazy to eat food! He loved them!! And since he was eating them, I kept feeding him those once daily for the first week and then switched to every other day..just a chunk or two that comes out of the packets. Now I have freezed bloodworms and he likes those just as much and still continues to eat now every other day. I choose to feed him every other day because his tummy seems swollen and he does have trouble swimming at times..he continuously lays on his side..at the bottom of the rocks,etc or gets behind the wisper filter and rests on one of the sticky things near the surface.

Unusual findings on the fish/frog: white raised cottony dot right below (or above) his eye. Whitish splattered looking paint under his mouth and gills (like on the bottom of his body) and white gunk on his eyes.

Unusual behavior: laying on bottom of tank or near surface..doesnt move much at all unless tapped on glass, swims sideways..looks sick

Medications/what has been tried or done do far: Nothing because this betta is so old and has never had ANY kind of medication/treatment what so ever. I bought Rid Ich + because I am pretty sure he has velvet (dust on his fins) fins are clamped, lethargy, gills seem to be breathing harder and harder. I also bought maracide (treats the fish, not the water)which I would like to try first..but I don’t know how to introduce it to him or his tank and with the amount of ammonia and temp..there is so much thought that goes into it that I don’t end up doing anything but a good ole water change. I added Nutrafin Cycle to see if it would lower the ammonia but haven’t tested it yet to see if it did.

Summary of potential fish/frog stressors: I wanted to get him out of the filthy tank as soon as possible so I filled up his temp tank (1/2 gal bowl) with tap water and added just under a ½ teaspoon of aquarium salt (aquarisol?) also added his conditioner which removes chlorine, chloramine, and other metals. I did a vacuum of his 1.5 gal tank rocks and filled the rest of his tank up with this pretreated water from petsmart. At that point his tank was disgustingly filthy, stuff floating everywhere…oh forgot to mention the filter went out on me for the 2nd time and did not have money for a new one for atleast a few days. After a day went by of letting his temp tank (1/2 gal) sit, I added betta to it and he kinda freaked out..was swimming everywhere like crazy (nothing I have seen him do before) so after about 10 mins, I checked on him again and he was literally lifeless laying vertically at the bottom of the tank so I freaked and since I hadn’t emptied his old tank to clean it out yet, I just scooped him and put him back into his 1.5 gal tank ( I KNOW, I STRESSED HIM THE HECK OUT by doing this) but I could not just watch him die. But after adding him back to his actual tank, he just layed at the bottom, breathing heavily..now his breathing is ok but he is still just laying around at the bottom. Please help, I have grown immensely attached to “Betta” and have spent a fortune on him this last 2 months (literally) and I am scared to do anything thinking it will put him in shock..He still has the few raised patches and the “paint splatter” under his chin and dusty dots on his fins. His fins are clamped and his entire color is pale…a very faint color from his actual red color. His gills have these red things coming out but I don’t know if this is how he has always been but when I look at him from the front, his head looks huge, maybe swollen..and his belly is pretty full looking.. he didn’t eat for 3 weeks, maybe even longer until I got him the bloodworms, now he eats like a pig. I bought a new filter and installed it for him last night which seems to be working fine..for now. I just need step by step instructions on WHAT TO Do,…exactly with all details..not leaving one thing out..I still have quite a bit of room temperature aged water sitting around (including the huge jug I bought of “pretreated” water) so if I could get him out of the tank completely into clean fresh water (that’s dechlorinated) in his new 1gallon temp tank. I want to medicate him but don’t know how or how much and with his type of water (ammonia being high and temp really low with a PH of 7 and nitrates/nitrites seem average. Should I just mix half of the pretreated store bought water with half of his tank water in the 1 gallon temp tank, add conditioner (how much?) and then add him to the gallon bowl with the meds…do I put him in first and introduce the med slowly/gradually or do I mix it all up and then put him in it? What if the water does match what he is in now?How do I fix this? Hes still surviving and I want to make him better!
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Old 08-12-2010, 11:19 PM   #2 
sgoheen08
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I am in need to save my betta! When you say 100% water change, does that mean I place betta in a temp tank while I clean his tank and add conditioner to it with the correct temp and then put him back in the tank after I am done? This is what I have always done but I just want to make sure this is correct. Would you recommend I go ahead with the maracide? I have now realized that the color of his coat is now a copper color and am scared this is velvet. Or even ich as he has a cottony white patch just under his eye.

I just tested my tap water and it has an amonia level of 1.
I tested my bottled water and it has a level of 0.
Either way, I think it is safer than the level 4 that I am getting currently in his 1.5 gal tank.

Will this (shifting from amonia levels like that) put him in shock?
Also I noticed my Kh levels are 50 in his tank but 0 in the temp tank i am trying to put him in.
the ph matches in both, the temperatures match in both.
the nitrite and nitrate is slightly different in the temp tank as it is at 0.

I forgot to mention that after giving him the salt dunk, the next day he had a looong string of brown stuff coming out of his anal fin area...is this parasites or him just being "unsconstipated"? i have suspected he may be..

Right now, I just need to know what to do to help him at this point since his ammonia is so high and his ph is so different from the water that i "prepare" for him. "prepare" as in using filtered water with betta conditioner that has aged for 2 or 3 days with the same temp as his tank.

Can I put him in a new tank entirely so I can clean out his big tank and start over with that one? Or will it shock him to go into a clean tank since he has acclimated to this high ammonia one?

Also, I want to get a new heater (the 2-5 gallon one) because it has a set temp of 78 degrees but am scared that because I have a 1.5gallon that it will overheat his acrylic tank...The one i have now is the 1-3 gallon one and it doesnt have a set temp, it just keeps heating and heating and I have to remember to shut it off which is BAD for me since yesterday I forgot to shut it off before I went to work and it was on for 4 hours and his temperature raised from 72-78 until I came home on my lunch break and unplugged it. He was still laying in the same spot but he actually came out to eat and was swimming up top and is now behind his filter (he likes to rest right between the two suction cups) which is close to the top..he just seems depressed..I got a good picture of his spot below his eye and also of his belly area that looks splattered with white paint. He is a red betta but his color is pale, almost looks copperish. The only sprinkled dots I see on him is tiny ones on his fins. I can see a mucous coating on his skin..

The day before, I came home to him having this long brown thing coming from his anal fin area. (Somthing I have never seen after having him for a year now) and since I have suspicions of him having SBD, after adding him to a salt bath--maybe this was him being "unconstipated"...worried me but he still is acting the same, lethargic..

Also, should I medicate him with the maracide or rid ich that I have? Should I go to petsmart for the 3rd time this week and pick up an antibiotic as well? How do I introduce the treatment to him? I would obviously have to move him to his temporary 1 gal glass tank but how should I do that and with his old water? or with part old, part new and then add medication and then add betta? Or add betta first and then introduce the med? This is the part I dont know about! He does not have those sprinkled dots all over his body..just on his fins and mouth area which is why I am stumped as to what this is..???

Newest pic:
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Old 08-12-2010, 11:23 PM   #3 
sgoheen08
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An update for today: I put betta in his temp tank and he seems to be doing just fine. He still looks the same as the picture as that was taken today. I stripped his 1.5gal tank down and cleaned it with hot water and rinsed and rinsed and scrubbed the sides with my tank scrubber. Added new water, conditioner,filter and heater back in (just rinsed the filter in the old tank water) He actually seems to be more active in this new temp tank and I am very hopeful for him..in the mean time..does anyone know what this disease could be with all the information provided?

SHould I medicate him? If so, with what? I will keep him in this temp tank for medicine but i have not decided whether or not I will medicate him..I dont want to stress him anymore. How do I get rid of that "stuff" on his body?
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Old 08-13-2010, 12:36 AM   #4 
derpmeister
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Wow, that's a lot of reading haha. First of all, you did the right thing by moving him out of his old container. Any amount of ammonia in the water is harmful to your fish, especially in the long run. And yes, to do 100% water changes you temporarily take the betta out of his tank, empty out the tank, replace the water and then condition and get it to the right temperature. You said that your tap water has ammonia in it-- the conditioner "Stress Coat" removes ammonia as well as chlorine/chloramine from your tap water and can be found at most pet stores.

Okay, it sounds to me like your betta has some sort of ich or fungal infection-- the white color gives it away. If you think it's velvet, shine a flash light on your betta and you should be able to easily see the gold dust if is velvet.

I think that the brown stuff you saw was poop, which is good because you said he was bloated earlier and he's getting it out.

With any disease, especially ich, you want to keep the water as warm as you can, about in the 80-82 degree range. It speeds up the life cycle of the parasites and helps your betta fight them.

I don't have any experience with Maracide, but from looking online it says it treats ich as well as velvet... usually I don't recommend medicating but in your betta's case it might be necessary. Medicine is hard on the fish but it can also save their life.

I'm sure someone more experienced than me will post soon. I just wanted to respond because nobody else has yet.
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Old 08-13-2010, 12:36 AM   #5 
FireKidomaru
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hmmmm....this sounds like a job for oldfishlady....maybe pm her or contact her
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:23 AM   #6 
sgoheen08
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Just trying to be as thorough and detailed as possible! Thanks for the reply.
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Old 08-13-2010, 11:42 AM   #7 
sgoheen08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derpmeister View Post
Wow, that's a lot of reading haha. First of all, you did the right thing by moving him out of his old container. Any amount of ammonia in the water is harmful to your fish, especially in the long run. And yes, to do 100% water changes you temporarily take the betta out of his tank, empty out the tank, replace the water and then condition and get it to the right temperature. You said that your tap water has ammonia in it-- the conditioner "Stress Coat" removes ammonia as well as chlorine/chloramine from your tap water and can be found at most pet stores.

Okay, it sounds to me like your betta has some sort of ich or fungal infection-- the white color gives it away. If you think it's velvet, shine a flash light on your betta and you should be able to easily see the gold dust if is velvet.

I think that the brown stuff you saw was poop, which is good because you said he was bloated earlier and he's getting it out.

With any disease, especially ich, you want to keep the water as warm as you can, about in the 80-82 degree range. It speeds up the life cycle of the parasites and helps your betta fight them.

I don't have any experience with Maracide, but from looking online it says it treats ich as well as velvet... usually I don't recommend medicating but in your betta's case it might be necessary. Medicine is hard on the fish but it can also save their life.

I'm sure someone more experienced than me will post soon. I just wanted to respond because nobody else has yet.
I will try the stress coat to lower ammonia in tap. The picture provided was of me shining a flashlight on him and taking a picture. I flashlight him probably everyday now just seeing if things are getting better or worse. The stuff on his belly is not raised (almost looks like it may be just his skin from old age or something) and it looks like silvery/whitish color. He only has one raised white dot, just below his eye (you can see it in the pic) and then he has a very pale color to his entire body except his mouth/gill area. he also has a silvery ouline around his eyes (this and the white dot has appeared within the last 3 weeks.) I dont see any "dust" on him when I shine the flashlight, just a few specs of "lint" on his two tiny front fins. Somone from another forum said this different coat color is maybe a slimy coat from all of the ammonia he has been exposed to and that it should come back full on with clean water. I am really hoping this is the case! Thanks for the replies!!
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Old 08-17-2010, 09:20 AM   #8 
sgoheen08
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It has been 5 days now. I got his tank temperature up to 78 over the weekend. Yesterday when I came home, the tank was heated to 82.7!! Umm, I tested it and watched it and it never went that high until yesterday! I turned it off at that point (which was before I went to sleep) I woke up to his temperature at 71.8! This fluctuation of temperature is going to kill him! I dont know what to do..he is still laying on the bottom of the tank breathing. His "cotton dot" under his eye is lightening up in color (isnt as noticeable). His coat color is still that pale copper color but it has brightened just a tad. He has been eating ever since I started him on bloodworms months ago. I feed him the frozen bloodworms (NOT freeze dried). I also have the packets of bloodworms in a nutrient rich gel which I feed to him if I dont have time to thaw out his frozen. The outlining is still around his eyes. He seemed to be moving around ALOT yesterday (going up to the surface alot) and this was when his temp was at 81. I thought this heater was supposed to stop after 78 degrees?! Thats not the case..and maybe its because I have it in a 1 gallon jar? Maybe if it was his 1.5 gallon tank, it would stay lower than 80. Question..how often do fish poop? Since putting him in this tank 5 days ago, he has not pooped at all. There is no debris of anything at the bottom...I think I mite try the blanched pea thing..but I have before and he didnt ever try to eat them cuz they just sink..I dont know what else to do..the "fungus" or whatever he has is still there. Any suggestions?!
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Old 08-17-2010, 08:29 PM   #9 
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I think turning the heater off is a bad thing. Bettas can handle temps of 85. Two of mine live at 82 all the time. It seems from all you're describing that he's more active when his temp is up. It's more stress for him to be going from 71 to 81 and then back down again. When he's not properly heated his metabolism slows down which leads to bloating. I'm not sure but I think the kind of heater you have raises the temp of the tank to a couple degrees above your room temp, so it's dependent on the temp of your house as well. I could be wrong, only you know that for sure. As long as your house isn't going above the 80's he should be okay with the heater on all the time. You should still monitor the temp to be sure it doesn't go over 85.

If you can't get him to eat the pea, get frozen daphnia from the fish store. If they don't have daphnia you can try frozen mysis shrimp. Just don't make a habit of the mysis. They're very fatty but also have a lot of fiber.

If you're using water conditioner, you shouldn't have to let the water sit out. All my tanks are heated and I just match the tap water temp to the tank temp (within 1 or 2 degrees) when I do a water change. I use Prime water conditioner which removes ammonia from tap water too. I wait maybe 15 minutes, sometimes less, before adding the new water. This is really just to let the conditioner disperse (in my mind) and probably isn't necessary. :) Anyway, using water that's the same temp he was coming from makes things easier for you and less stress for him.

I hope this helps. I'm not familiar with fungus or anything of that nature.
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:19 AM   #10 
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Well, I was going to put him back in his 1.5gal tank lastnight but I shined a flashlight on him to check on him and noticed something different, something I was afraid of all along! Betta now has this "dusting" that everyone describes for velvet. The dusting literally looks like glitter all over his body! So now ALL of his symptoms and with the very detailed history strongly points to velvet. I seriously thought I was just seeing things because I have not noticed this glitter dusting this entire time (maybe it just now appeared) but nope, I had someone else look at him too. I also noticed a shiny copper mark on his gill, and is actually on the other gill too.

So he has the copper dusting on his body and gills, he is lethargic STILL after 6 days of fresh clean water, he barely moves from the bottom, he "flashes" up against decor, rocks,etc and his whole coat is PALE, he has been eating (he just cant resist the bloodworms) but I havent fed him for 2 days now because we are fasting to get him to poop since he hasnt pooped the entire time in his hospital tank. He swims at different angles, sideways, upsidedown, vertical as I think he has SBD as well.

I immediately turned up his heater a degree or two and added a drop of maracide. The instructions say 2 capfulls per 10 gallons but I have a 1 gallon tank that he is in currently so thats why I did just a drop (it was like a drop and a half) I dont want to undermedicate so I was wondering if this amount was correct. It also says treat on days 1,3, and 5. After day 5-should I keep him in the hospital tank for a few more days until I see no signs? I just want to make sure i am doing everything right.

I took some pics yesterday and this morning to try and catch the "glitter" but that didnt work very well but I did happen to get a few good pics of him--another thing that worries me is the whitish slimy stuff around his mouth, chin, and gill area..it leads to the white dot right under his eye. His eyes have this outline of silvery shiny stuff and was wondering if that was velvet as well..Here are the pics:

Closeup of his face with the slimy white stuff on his chin, gill, mouth area:


This next one, is a good one of the gold rust on his gill:


Another closeup of his face and belly:


Another closeup of his face and belly:
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