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Old 08-25-2010, 06:39 PM   #31 
Betta Slave
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I'm very sorry for your loss, DH :( Don't worry about it. Things like that, as we all know, pop up unexpectedly. >.<

I know I'm echoing everyone, but, FBA, you don't know who you're talking about here. Doggyhog is an absolutely wonderful fish mom. She would have known if she could have prevented that or not, and in this case, she couldn't have. So drop it.
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:15 PM   #32 
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QUOTE OF THE WEEK ALERT :33

xD
That made me giggle. xD
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Old 08-25-2010, 08:03 PM   #33 
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OK, guys, lets get back on topic, please.

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Old 08-25-2010, 09:04 PM   #34 
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Originally Posted by iamntbatman View Post
First, doggyhog, I'm very sorry for your loss. That was one beautiful fish. I hate to further derail the thread, but there are some issues here that I think need to be addressed.



Hmmm...



[If we're talking about "magic" here, why are parasites resistant to said magic while bacteria can't resist it? The fact is that there isn't anything we can add to our tanks that's in any way, shape or form "magical." Fishkeeping is a science woven of a complex tapestry of the chemical and biological reactions in our tanks. Yes, certain types of organisms that can cause our freshwater fish harm are adversely affected by increased salinity. Bacteria are actually not usually affected by the small amounts of salt we would use. The most affected actually are external protozoan parasites. However, just because salt can be effective in countering these parasites does not mean that it's always a good idea to use salt to treat them and further does not mean that it's a good idea to keep salt in the tank as a preventative measure.]

let me define figure of speech for you,

"The figurings of speech reveal to us the apparently limitless plasticity of language itself. We are confronted, inescapably, with the intoxicating possibility that we can make language do for us almost anything we want. Or at least a Shakespeare can."
"The Greeks called them 'schemes,' a better word than 'figures,' because they serve as persuasive tricks and rules of thumb. While Shakespeare had to memorize more than 200 of them in grammar school, the basic ones aren't hard to learn. . . .

"Figures of speech change ordinary language through repetition, substitution, sound, and wordplay. They mess around with words--skipping them, swapping them, and making them sound different."

just few examples, so in this case i used the word Magical to define the effect of salt water's effect for Betta's.


That's all interesting reading, sure, but doesn't really address the actual use of salt in a freshwater aquarium or, specifically, in a fish tank with a betta. Bettas are softwater fish. In nature, they are found in waters extremely low in salinity. They're very sensitive to salt and therefore, in my opinion, salt should never be used in a betta tank in any circumstances. Even if the fish is suffering from external protozoan parasites, there are other treatments (heat and other medications) that I would use before using salt in the case of salt-sensitive fish.
i know right? very interesting indeed. but your statement that says " but doesn't really address the actual use of salt in a freshwater aquarium or, specifically, in a fish tank with a betta ", i just did in my previous post, do you think i would post some self proclaimed made up theory about using salt for Betta's? with all due respect you don't know jack if you don't even know the basic protection in water that can be provided to Betta's just by using 1/2 tea spoon of salt to treat a U.S. gallon of water that's provided for Betta's. you want proof? ok let's find some sources that has scientific facts rather than speculation as you might think i use salt totally based on my own preference.

http://www.aquariumfishwonders.com/a...ater-aquarium/

read all of it? i know i know you are still ardent about "where does it state about Betta's getting benefit from aquarium salt?" let's read one of the few articles out there who personally uses salt for Betta's and has gotten positive results, please read below by clicking on the link.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Betta-Dise...ath&id=3461064

if you want more proof just Google Aquarium Salt for benefits, now we all know Betta's are freshwater fish so you might readily disagree against using salt for Betta's. but that's not always the case and they are one of the toughest fresh water fish around, the description of Betta's since their origin from Thailand has changed vastly. how? they have evolved from Wild Betta's to being the today's domesticated Betta's we know and love. one of the most sought Pet store fish. lol forget about aquarium salt which the Betta's had adapted long time ago, people add Aquarium salt for mainly preventing Ick/fungus/bacterias that causes fin rot and lastly both types of parasites that thrive in fresh water are said to have low tolerance against water treated by Aquarium Salt. it works and tested by many, just take few moments to Google Aquarium for Betta's.

this will blow your mind away when you hear some people use direct Tap water for their Betta's and it just so happens, those Betta's have evolved and developed resistance against tap water chlorine that is used to make the tap water drinkable for human. jk? sure if you want to believe that so ardently but here's one of the local Betta fish owner that breeds and sells them on Aquabid. scroll below and read his description and i live in New York, i was planning to personally go pay him a visit tomorrow lol.

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/aucti...swt&1283225812

this is a perfect example of how hardy Betta's truly are and he has pretty much made all his Betta's adapted to direct Tap water. though i am amazed he feeds them chunk of raw meats... yummy steak *slurp", oops sorry well so................................................ .................................................
lol if you still think Betta's are that delicate to simple Salt which does more good than damage, and not good for Betta's which is your opinion as you stated. sure what ever you say pal but peoples out there are using Aquarium Salt for their Betta's and they are doing more than fine, than they does in fresh water. given the natural protection of salt treated waters prevents Betta's from catching all sorts of freshwater Bacterias and as for Parasites, yes you are right not all parasites can be treated with salt water because there are parasites that are found in saltwater only and thrives in salt water alone but this Betta of Doggyhog, i wanted to know if he/she uses Aquarium salt for his Betta's. and again!!!! i never mentioned "Use Aquarium Salt to treat Parasite infected Betta's" which was assumed by you and another person in this thread earlier. anyway but it DOES provides a Betta with ick/fungus/fin rot protection along with certain parasites that cannot tolerate salt, as stated in my earlier 2 links that explains why. so i am not going to explain that again.

lastly but not the least, here's a perfect example of how my Betta's thrive in Aquarium salt treated water. they have been in this salt water over a week now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehibl...eature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFreak.../0/aaND5EGhykg


those of you that wants to start using Aquarium Salt, here's a link for you guys.

http://www.aquariumfish.net/informat...arium_salt.htm

and also for those that are concerned if it raises ph or if it hardens water or not.

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/pha...a/aa061301.htm

lastly DO NOT USE your home table salt for Betta's, in some cases the added chemical found in iodized and other table salts has killed Betta's, and some just did fine as stated from various sources but none of them died from Aquarium Salt treated waters, hope that helps. toodles

Last edited by FBA; 08-25-2010 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:24 PM   #35 
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Originally Posted by Betta Slave View Post
I'm very sorry for your loss, DH :( Don't worry about it. Things like that, as we all know, pop up unexpectedly. >.<

I know I'm echoing everyone, but, FBA, you don't know who you're talking about here. Doggyhog is an absolutely wonderful fish mom. She would have known if she could have prevented that or not, and in this case, she couldn't have. So drop it.
that's great and im so touched by how much you care for her emotional state rather than her Betta being dead, are we still talking about the dead Betta that was lost or Doggyhogs emotional state? cause i clearly don't recall giving her comments regarding her emotional state or stating she KILLED her Betta. just offered my 2 cents with my best knowledge on how to prevent further Betta losses if by any chance another one of her Betta gets effected by a similar parasites or other bacterias. try to focus on my impersonal statements.

not on some assumed negative factors that's only in your head. you are a kind person and care for Doggyhog but that has nothing to do with me suggesting her Aquarium Salt and also all my question that was unanswered which prevents me to further delve into finding the cause that might have killed the Betta. good day to you.

Last edited by FBA; 08-25-2010 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:51 PM   #36 
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DH.. I'm so very sorry for your loss. He was a beautiful fish. It sounds like something he must have had from before you ever got him. If you need someone to talk to send me a PM.

FBA... Do you in fact keep Betta splendens? If you do how long have you had them and how long have they lived? I've read many articles for and against the use of salt in Betta tanks over the long term and the general consensus of those articles is that for Betta splendens prolonged use of salt can be detrimental to the health of the fish. Of course I have not seen a scientific study done on this but then again all the links you posted were from random websites written up by god knows who. I will say that I respect Elizabeth Christopher and she was once a member of this board but her opinion is not gold. In fact her article was about the benefits of a salt bath and not long term salt usage.

I'm not sure what your intention in posting in this thread was. We have plenty of threads arguing for and against the use of salt in aquariums, those would have been a much more appropriate stage for your tirade instead of coming into a sympathy thread and insinuating that Doggyhog is somehow responsible for the death of her fish. The fish has only been with her for a short time (a month or two if I remember correctly?) it is entirely possible that the fish had parasites from the get go.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:56 PM   #37 
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FBA, thank you for your concern. When I created this thread, I was not looking for someone to tell me that I messed up and to start taking better care of my fish. I was simply letting the people who I'm friends with on this forum know that one of my fish died. Now, I understand where your coming from as you were trying to help, but to me it came off as very rude.

I know that AQ salt is good for bettas for treating disease, but I don't believe in using it long term as it has been proven to cause internal damage if used to long periods of time. I do use it if anything starts to look off and I monitor my bettas very carefully as well as doing religious water changes. I do not think it is your place to judge me. I would ask that you please think about it a little more before you say anything like that to another member. I take it very hard when I lose a fish, as they are my one of my main hobbies and I have spent hundreds of dollars on them in the past years. I am extremely committed to my fish.

I have defiantly done my research on fish diseases. In this instance I knew there wasn't much I could do, but I tried treating him any way. No luck obviously. I have had lots of experience treating sick fish..

I understand that my OP didn't have much information in it. That is because I was NOT expecting this to happen. It was simply a memorial of one of my favorite fish. Not meant to start and argument on how I'm doing things wrong.
In no means am I perfect, I make/have made huge mistakes in my life, not only in fish keeping but in general. I have learned from them, and this one too.

Please be a little more sensitive when you are replying to a thread about someone's fish dying. To me it is a sensitive topic especially if it is my fish.

Have a nice night.

Doggyhog.
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:17 PM   #38 
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I missed this so I'M SORRY FOR YOUR LOSS. So sorry ): You're the kick-butt queen of bettas around here DH, and we all know that this isn't something that you could've prevented. Something that struck so fast and... well, so disgustingly (x.x) couldn't really have been prevented, no matter how hard you tried. And you DID try, and then you tried again to help when you realized something was wrong. We all feel like we did something horribly, terribly wrong when one of ours die. It's natural. And it's something that most of the time wasn't our fault. This is one of those times.

Now, to FBA. Before you go around accusing DH of keeping her fish in tiny bowls, how about doing a little reconnaissance and maybe INVESTIGATING before you fling accusations around willy nilly. A simply investigation of DH's threads would bring up some videos she recently posted. Here you go, just for you (;

Napoleon, Rillian, and Gustav:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T59JWNH6sPI

Dumbo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQe3Y...eature=channel

Clypso and Oliver:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Q0D...eature=channel

The Girls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd8-Q...eature=channel

Wolfie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH79-...eature=channel

There you go. NICE bowls, eh?
She keeps them in bowls and tanks complete with heaters, decorations, plants, and so on. In fact, any investigating at all would reveal that DH here is completely competent when it comes to her bettas, my bettas, his bettas, their bettas, and so on. She isn't a moderator here because she can tie her shoes (You CAN do that, right??? :PP). She's a mod because she knows her stuff and is kind in her posts to EVERYONE.

We're here for you, DH :P If it helps, all of US know that when it comes to betta keeping, you're the best of the best ^_^ Sorry about the loss, again, and hope things start looking up.
so anyways first of all present the statement where i stated she keeps her Betta's in a jar. right now go back and slowly read the last paragraph again.

"another thing i saw your Betta's pic in a little Petco sized Betta plastic cup, i hope you don't keep all your Betta's in little jar like that, in short ill say odds are stacked against you in maintaining proper Betta health in that size containers unless you do daily water change. good luck with your other 11 Betta's."

do you see the difference? or do i have to point it out? i started with what saw in the pic and then! said i hope she doesn't keep all her Betta's in little jars like that. not a statement that shows i deliberately stated she does uses small jars for all the rest of her Betta's despite knowing she has big tanks provided for her Betta. try proof reading it will help you buddy but i do love your enthusiasm.

"There you go. NICE bowls, eh?
She keeps them in bowls and tanks complete with heaters, decorations, plants, and so on. In fact, any investigating at all would reveal that DH here is completely competent when it comes to her bettas, my bettas, his bettas, their bettas, and so on. She isn't a moderator here because she can tie her shoes (You CAN do that, right??? :PP). She's a mod because she knows her stuff and is kind in her posts to EVERYONE."

i don't recall stating she is incompetent and i never noticed her forum rank or anyone else for that matter. it is irrelevant when i am trying to discuss about a Betta's death and you guys showing your condolences to Doggyhog for her loss.

Doggyhog you still haven't answered any of my questions but given your links on Youtube, you are a Veteran level Betta keeper and you have my respect for treating your Betta's with such care but i do hope you cut out on stuffing your tanks too much with decorations, which hardly contributes to your Betta's. but anyways it's your Betta's so do with them as you see fit. good luck with your other 11 Betta's.
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:22 PM   #39 
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Doggyhog you still haven't answered any of my questions but given your links on Youtube, you are a Veteran level Betta keeper and you have my respect for treating your Betta's with such care but i do hope you cut out on stuffing your tanks too much with decorations, which hardly contributes to your Betta's. but anyways it's your Betta's so do with them as you see fit. good luck with your other 11 Betta's.Veteran?! Try professional! DH's betta keeping skills are (no offense to anyone! :P) far superior than either my own or probably yours. DH is on par with the great OFL, imo.
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:23 PM   #40 
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FBA,

Frankly you come off as a know-it-all who joins a forum and immediately starts making noise and attacking people (MODERATORS, no less- I don't know DH but I'm sure you don't get to be moderator by peeing in buckets) with hasty accusations of mistreating their fish. Then, to cover up the fact that you've obviously been an insensitive mass of hot air, you throw quotes and facts around trying to make yourself justified when really what people take issue with is your attitude. You also seem to develop some sense of righteous, superior fury when people get offended over your obviously inflammatory remarks.

I can't speak for the others, but I am infinitely inclined to listen to your advice and information. Unfortunately, a common condition of human communication is that the WAY you say something matters heavily more than what you are actually SAYING. You don't seem like a moron to me (just misguided)- surely you can appreciate that stating things in a kind and respectful manner will get you thousands of miles farther than going about being an overly defensive, pushy, condescending jerk.

I can give you research to back that claim up, if common sense doesn't go far enough for you. :)

Doggy- I'm so sorry about your fish. I'm sure you did everything in your power to save him.
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