breeding out agression in bettas

[carpenter547]

wow your right epeen is the lamest term i could think up hence it's use.

the arguement of too many little cups is effectivly solved by creating a peacable species *no matter what lfs care sucks*

elitist was chosen due to the oft repeated "if you want peaceful bettas go get guppies" which implies that guppies or other peaceful colorful fish are a "lesser" fish for "lesser" fish keepers. same as the statement about submission or overly docile fish. in short all to often *from the out side looking in* betta owner are too wraped up in the bad as rep of thier fish *similar to thugs and pits* again wraping into the epeen statement.

i submit opinions as opinions theories as theories hypothesis as hypothesis. and facts as facts. since nothing i am talking about has been done yet there is alot to theorize about.

i have previously stated my truths facts and opinions and labeled them as such. when i express my opinion it is just that an opinion.

and when i say most people find one male betta per tank to be less than fullfilling i mean just that. not saying literally every one. and i do take into account the useing of cleanning animals in a tank. how ever, glo fish goldfish guppies playties mollies tetras white clouds etc. are not cleaning fish most of them are schooling fish and add to the fullness and visual appeal of the tank.

my statement and opinion is very simple if there were no loss of color or finnage then more people than not *counting new people and those who don't know better* would choose more than one male betta per tank.

and vay girl i am only 10 years younger than you so please don't assume because i borrowed a youngster term that i am infact a member of the bobble head generation *btw help me start that as a phrase people it is fitting*

bobble head : this latest crop of children and teenager who spend the whole day with an empty blank look on thier face even their new music is geared tward a bobble head doll LOL. :)

[Capricorn]

Well, I'm 19, and probably considered a member of your "bobblehead" generation.. I'd appreciate it if you didn't lump every teenager in the country into one group. We're just as diverse as your generation, if not moreso. It's hard enough to convince an adult that you're a free-thinking, intelligent human being and not some sort of drugged up zombie without more stereotypes to go around.

Anyway, back to the fish, the topic of this thread. I still don't see how a more docile species means less cups on the shelf.. bettas will always be marketed as a fish that could live in a cup of water. People who don't do their research and don't know any better will always buy tiny "betta bowls" and continue to keep fish in conditions that are barely habitable. More fish die, new fish are needed to replace the dead ones. As long as people are purchasing fish and making stores money, there will always, always be fish crammed into poor conditions. Fish in poor conditions become either lethargic or territorial, and the cycle of an aggressive fish continues.

[carpenter547]

Originally Posted by Capricorn

Well, I'm 19, and probably considered a member of your "bobblehead" generation.. I'd appreciate it if you didn't lump every teenager in the country into one group. We're just as diverse as your generation, if not moreso. It's hard enough to convince an adult that you're a free-thinking, intelligent human being and not some sort of drugged up zombie without more stereotypes to go around.
the above statement removes you from that gereralization :) i was talking about the ones i described "vacant stare" ment no offence to any one capable of taking offence. but then again being able to take offence removes you from that group.

Anyway, back to the fish, the topic of this thread. I still don't see how a more docile species means less cups on the shelf.. bettas will always be marketed as a fish that could live in a cup of water. People who don't do their research and don't know any better will always buy tiny "betta bowls" and continue to keep fish in conditions that are barely habitable. More fish die, new fish are needed to replace the dead ones. As long as people are purchasing fish and making stores money, there will always, always be fish crammed into poor conditions. Fish in poor conditions become either lethargic or territorial, and the cycle of an aggressive fish continues.

the simple logic of my theory is:
the fish in tanks are messed with less as they tend to be locked.
the fish stock could be kepted in a tank *large but possible*
where as fish in cups:
routinely messed with by people.
are unlocked
takes multiple water changes and more time.
are waay less healthy even by lfs standards.

right now 50 new bettas means 50 new cups to watch clean store etc.
where as a non agressive one *even if you need a large tank at home* with out the attack guppies and long finned fish trait could be distributed through out the tanks with other fish ie:
2 -3 in guppy tank males
2 -3 in guppy females
2 -3 in danios
2-3 in mollies
2-3 in playtie
etc. in theory already found non cup homes for 9 and that is just off of memory of local sock selection. so there is in theory a practical and useful application.
also if they don't fight and are in cups it removes inventory losses due to fight club posers bs. :)
further it means a faster moving healthier stock when being sold to the non betta afficionado. lets face it even a 10 gallon tank isn't over stocked with 4 bettas in it and it would give ALOT of visual appeal to those new to the fish keeping world.

again my opinion at least there is logic involved.

ps my oldest daugher is only 5 years younger than you :)

[CodeRed]

The only thing I could see happening is them shoving more bettas into the same sized container.... No matter what, they'll never lose the "mud puddle" myth that comes with them.
Since they do so well in small tanks, and if they're also compatible with others, then another betta in there wouldn't hurt, right??? /sarcasm.
Don't forget that the majority of the public is severely under informed about bettas and their health care required. More than likely what they'd do is just shove more and more bettas into the same tanks that used to house only one.
Also, when they lose the aggressiveness, people would stick them in with all KINDS of fish, ignoring the fact that often, Bettas are nipped by other species. Bettas can't be placed just anywhere, aggressive or not. Their long fins demand special care when it comes to choosing tank mates.


And as a member of the "bobble head generation", I'd suggest not flinging that term around. No matter who you meant it to, calling it "generation" means you included everyone. Saying "bobble headed kids" would've been less antagonistic. Keep in mind that the majority of people on this site BELONG to the "bobble head generation". Many, many of us are under the age of 20, most being around the 11-16 age range...

[Capricorn]

^ +1

[carpenter547]

yeah prolly right about the bobble head kid thing :) *still maintain the phrase should be adopted *

it may well happen the way you state it may. however if you breed enough selectivley to get to to be reconized as a seperate sub breed then you could do what was done with the glofish http://www.glofish.com/ where in you own the animal. in which case you could specify stocking and display requirements for your product ala planagram simmilar to how budwiser and general mills do with thier products. in which you would stipulate that your www.care.com be listed on the speices identification card along with information you require. most people do read and follow those as a general rule. on said card you could state "these are not wild fish they have been slectively breed to live with each other in a tank size of *lets say* 20 gallons. and while they aren't agressive with other breeds you must select fish that won't nip thier long fins. temperature 75 - 82 degrees feed them betta flakes or pellets for care info log on to www.peacefully-splendid_betta.com" or some such.

at least this is the theory. and yes i know that information is available online for betta currently but it isn't posted in the store and the store employees are way misinformed so people see small tanks with bettas in them and little cups with no heater and airstone and buy first think second or even ask and get the wrong ansers. a species id card like all the other fish have would go a long way even with reg bettas.

[dramaqueen]

Wow. what a thread! I'm sorry I missed it until now. I'll put my 2 cents worth in. I like my bettas the way they are and wouldn't change them for anything.

[MrVampire181]

IMO bettas can be a little more work with all the jars...but thats what big tanks and tank dividers were made for LOL.

[carpenter547]

btw vamp how much will you be charging for your stock when you start selling them. i would love love love a beutiful tank with vibrant fem sorority in it *for aestetics not breeding* and your newest brood is all short finned no?
i just saw your sig :)

[Alex09]

Wow people. Is it illegal to have an opinion here? someone says it would be neat to have multiple bettas coexist and everyone jumps the bandwagon on how it is unethical, immoral, un-natural etc...

A peaceful betta would indeed be something to see. Hey, I wouldnt mind getting 3 or 4 for my 10 gallon.

I think there are a few ways to go about it. You may try to create hybrids but of course this will take time. I have a feeling that a much quicker result MAY be possible in biotech. Of course, there is no initiative to the general public, and its going to be expensive, but If a biotech company really wanted to they could probably do it using GM techniques.

To all the haters: Realize that every domesticated animal on the face of this planet is "man made" and therefore un-natural. Betta's aren't any different. Go dump a betta in a rice paddy in thailand and see how it goes.

Sorry for the rant but it really irritates me to see everyone flock together like sheep and get all defensive because someone dares to have an opinion that isnt in line with yours.