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Old 09-12-2010, 11:35 AM   #1 
tigahunta
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Exclamation Few Questions about Breeding.

I've bred couple of times before. I recently started breeding Bettas again. I have several questions.

1. A pair of Bettas spawned yesterday. During the Male's vigil he didn't seem to eat any eggs but now as the eggs started to hatch his stomach seems bloated and I see less eggs. Is there a way tell whether the male is a spawn eater?

2. When should I remove the male? (I wanna save as many fry as I possibly could)

3. When should I start feeding the fry?

4. Is egg yolk alone sufficient to feed the fry?

5. When should I move the fry to a larger tank (from the 10g tank they are housed in)

6. What seized tank should I move them into?
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Old 09-12-2010, 11:47 AM   #2 
MrVampire181
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Originally Posted by tigahunta View Post
I've bred couple of times before. I recently started breeding Bettas again. I have several questions.

1. A pair of Bettas spawned yesterday. During the Male's vigil he didn't seem to eat any eggs but now as the eggs started to hatch his stomach seems bloated and I see less eggs. Is there a way tell whether the male is a spawn eater?

2. When should I remove the male? (I wanna save as many fry as I possibly could)

3. When should I start feeding the fry?

4. Is egg yolk alone sufficient to feed the fry?

5. When should I move the fry to a larger tank (from the 10g tank they are housed in)

6. What seized tank should I move them into?
Question 1: Your male is "culling". Eating weak fry. It's instinct. Of course you could take him out now because fry will survive on the bottom until free swimming.

Question 2: I remove my male when the fry start free swimming. You can remove him as long as there are fry like I said above.

Question 3: I feed my fry as soon as they are free swimming, right after I remove the male.

Question 4: No, egg yolk will foul the water and kill fry, tough some people use it but I don't. I feed my fry infusoria (from my culture and from the live plants in the spawning tank), baby brine shrimp, and Hikari First Bites (powdered fry food, careful it fouls the water quickly) for the first week.

Question 5: I split my fry into two ten gallon tanks or a large plastic tub from Wal-Mart. Thoguh I'm getting a 20-30 gallon soon so I'll move my new fry (hatching later today) into that tank.

Hope this helped :)
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Old 09-12-2010, 11:48 AM   #3 
Oldfishlady
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Congrats....

You can remove the male the day the eggs are in the nest and then move the eggs to a shallow container to artificial hatch-or-leave him in for 24h and then remove as they start to hatch with known egg/fry eater when you need that spawn.
You may still have a lot of egg/fry death-usually the male is eating them for a reason to save the healthy eggs/fry and sometimes it can be due to being disturb too much

I only feed live foods-live plants and common snails produce infusoria for the first week and then I use newly hatched BBS, white worms, daphania, HUFA supplemented BBS

Once I start adding any food to the tank-I start making 50% daily water changes

I move my fry as they grow the biggest get moved first to a 20g and 25g grow-out tanks-depending on when I need the spawning tank again the smaller fry may stay in that tank for a month or longer......but that varies
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Old 09-12-2010, 12:12 PM   #4 
tigahunta
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Thank you for your input. I've been reading OFLs posts from a while now and other threads as well.

I have an additional question for OFL how do I know if I'm disturbing the male too much? As you can imagine I'm quite nervous about losing my entire spawn (my fish babies). I once had Albino Male VT who ate the entire spawn.

And to be honest it was recently I got hold of a SD male, HM females, and CTs. The pair in question is a SD Male with a HM female. I'm holding on to my nerves by a thread.
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Old 09-12-2010, 12:18 PM   #5 
tigahunta
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Vamp I'm all for research but it's the amount of misinformation which makes figuring things out harder.
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Old 09-12-2010, 12:22 PM   #6 
MrVampire181
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Originally Posted by tigahunta View Post
Vamp I'm all for research but it's the amount of misinformation which makes figuring things out harder.
I hate it when websites tell you all sorts of wrong info about breeding. Everyone has their own way of doing things so you should find/have yours soon :)
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Old 09-12-2010, 12:27 PM   #7 
Oldfishlady
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When I have a spawn that is really important and I don't want to take risk....I artificial hatch the eggs

I get a small plastic container that has a lid to it and I will dip the container under the nest and gentle as I can allow the nest and eggs to flow in the container-I put the lid on it and float it in the tank to maintain heat.
I also put a very small snail in the container after 24h so it can eat the fungus eggs-Since I use live plants and my males build under water lettuce I have the added benefit of the plant to help keep water quality high
After they are free swimming for about a week I release them in the spawning tank without the male and go from that point.

When you put your hand in the tank or even look in too much...some males, not all, will eat the eggs/fry to protect them...the theory being that the male want to use the protein of his offspring so he will have energy to spawn again....
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Old 09-12-2010, 11:22 PM   #8 
tigahunta
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The bubble nest is in pieces when I checked today morning. Male seems to be tending it. He seems to be making rounds in the tank and eventually returning to the nest. I assume he makes rounds to gather the fry and put them into the nest. Lots of eggs seems to be on the floor, they haven't hatches and doesn't look like it's gonna either. Fry are verticle near the water surface, yolk sack seems to be almost depleted. I think I'm gonna risk it and keep the male till tomorrow (I might change my mind), if I lose the entire spawn I would start over.

I have some follow up questions I hope I'm not being annoying,

1. How shallow should water in the container be? (I think this might come in handy in the future)

2. How often can you use a pair for breeding after a spawning? Does time vary depending on the sex?

3. I live in Sri Lanka (an Island nation just below India), so the temperature is quite warm. It doesn't drop below 80 degrees F even during night, so wouldn't putting a lid on the container fry the fry?

4. If the male does eat the entire spawn does it mean he is ready to spawn again given that he has bulked up on eggs?

5. I read about "keeping the father with the fry" method on bettysplendens.com and she states that culling by the father is propotional to the tank seize. Is this true? Does it mean if I use a bigger spawning tank that I will get more fry?
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:02 AM   #9 
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The bubble nest is in pieces when I checked today morning. Male seems to be tending it. He seems to be making rounds in the tank and eventually returning to the nest. I assume he makes rounds to gather the fry and put them into the nest. Lots of eggs seems to be on the floor, they haven't hatches and doesn't look like it's gonna either. Fry are verticle near the water surface, yolk sack seems to be almost depleted. I think I'm gonna risk it and keep the male till tomorrow (I might change my mind), if I lose the entire spawn I would start over.

I have some follow up questions I hope I'm not being annoying,

1. How shallow should water in the container be? (I think this might come in handy in the future)

IME 5 - 10 cm

2. How often can you use a pair for breeding after a spawning? Does time vary depending on the sex?

Basically you can constantly spawn them but it is safer to rest them and recondition them.
Badly beaten females should be given time to recover at least 1 week. The longer the better.
Males usually fast during the spawning and fry raising process, I usually rest them for at least 1 week. I would rest egg/fry eaters longer and hope they forget what eggs/fry taste like.... lol.

3. I live in Sri Lanka (an Island nation just below India), so the temperature is quite warm. It doesn't drop below 80 degrees F even during night, so wouldn't putting a lid on the container fry the fry?

No, if it isn't placed under direct sunlight. I too am in the tropics and I use lids too. For the ones under direct sunlight, I don't totally close them (not tight)

4. If the male does eat the entire spawn does it mean he is ready to spawn again given that he has bulked up on eggs?

I would not use these males unless I have to (for his genetics). I believe behavior will somehow be passed on to the offspring which in turn will become egg/fry eater. But to answer your question, yes you can spawn him again.

5. I read about "keeping the father with the fry" method on bettysplendens.com and she states that culling by the father is propotional to the tank seize. Is this true? Does it mean if I use a bigger spawning tank that I will get more fry?

IME not necessarily. I have experienced hundreds of fry in a very small container with the father for about a month.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:25 AM   #10 
Oldfishlady
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Lots of different way to spawn this species-it is finding what works best for you and your breeders. I spawn using a more natural environment and allow natural selection with most of my spawns....Like Indjo posted-if the spawn is really important and you need the lines-you do thing different.

I use the full to the top full of water 10g, but I also use heavy natural planted tanks with soil substrate and sand cap.

You lower the water level for the male not the eggs/fry-breeders with big heavy long fins can have trouble swimming back and forth gathering eggs during spawning and tending after spawn, especially if not conditioned.

I am not even sure I would use any added heaters if my night time temp stayed in the 80F area, how is you humidity? if you are dry heat-you may want to use a plastic veggie wrap over the fry tank to get healthy labyrinth organ development-at least until they are 6-8 weeks old-

The male is ready to spawn at anytime-the female needs at least 3 day between spawns.

I can't say that in my experience the tank size or set up has had anything to do with how big the spawn was or survival numbers.
I have found that it is more related to the male himself and overall heath of the eggs/wigglers/fry and water conditions.

I like to use 10g full to the top with water for my main spawning tank, but I have been doing an experiment this summer with a 5g bucket with 1male and 2females with great success.

Spawning this species is fairly easy IMO/E-it is the fry rearing that can be tricky for some. The right foods and clean water are so important especially for the first 3-4 weeks
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