No sorority setting females - what are your thoughts?
I've seen so many times where people will breed bettas then sell the females with the statement "no sorority settings". How do you guys feel about that? I understand that these people have a point in wanting their bettas to be safe in their new homes, but I feel that once you buy a fish (especially whenever you're paying $30 for ONE fish) that you should be able to do what you want with it. My boyfriend made the (crude) joke that some people might pay all this money to buy a fancy betta and then eat it instead of providing a good home for it. My belief is that, yes, you want to provide the bettas a good home but you shouldn't tell people how to keep the fish that they just bought from you.
Well it's up to the seller to decide what kind of home they want their fish to go to. Having seen how many sororities seem to crash and burn resulting in the death of many/all the females involved, it would definitely be something for me as a breeder to think about.
The thing is, no one forces you to buy a fish from someone whose policies you disagree with. They put all the work into those fish up until the point of sale, and so if they don't want their females to be used in sororities, it is absolutely their right to do so. Just as it is your right to purchase from another seller.
Yes, and I understand that people want what's best for their bettas, but I think that there's a line that needs to be drawn. Some people go so far as to no community as well. I like my female bettas into communities, so if I buy one that I like, I'm going to do what I want with the fish. I'm not trying to be disrespectful to the breeder, but they got the money that they asked for and they get to do whatever they want with it. I now have the fish that I bought, so I should be able to do what I want with it. Understand what I'm saying? Like I said, I'm not trying to be rude or disrespectful to the seller/breeder.
Well technically you can do whatever you like. However, say I was a breeder that you purchased from, knowing very well that I was 100% against having females living in sororities/community tanks (this is purely hypothetical as I do not breed fancy splendens BTW). If I as the breeder then came across pictures of said female in a sorority/community tank, I would probably put you on a list of people not to sell fish to in the future.
You have to remember that this hobby is quite a small one. Word does get round and I have a couple of people that I would personally never sell fish to simply based on what I have heard from other breeders/hobbyists.
True, reputation does have a lot to do into a situation like that. But, for what it's worth, I love the wild types that you breed, especially the Betta persephone!
Anyway, I know I haven't really thought about how I would feel if I was the breeder, but it doesn't bother me that much. I'm used to seeing bettas kept in terrible situations. If the betta is happy and healthy in a sorority/community setting, then I would be happy that the fish is being cared for. I would be dissatisfied if the fish went into a vase that had a plant on the surface of the water. I would rather someone not listen to me and provide a wonderful home for the betta rather than having someone listen to me about the "no community/sorority" and end up having the fish into a vase or small bowl.
Thanks. Betta persephone are one of my favourites.
I have to admit that I have rarely seen anyone say that a female betta wasn't to go into a sorority/community. The only time I have, was when the breeder felt the female was too aggressive to co-habitate peacefully with other fish.
Most breeders seem to be happy if they can offload females in bulk because males seem to be the more popular sellers.
My opinion is that if you know the breeder is pedantic about the kind of home they want their fish to be sold into, it's best to respect their wishes and find another seller.
True. But, you also have a point - I've been seeing less people say that about their females. I've also seen that people will usually showcase their males more than females, so the males will sell quicker. It's hard to find a nice looking female in some spawns, because I feel like people are more engrossed with how males look rather than females.
Another question: why are females usually sold (whether they're good breeders or not) whenever they're extremely fat with eggs? Are there any downsides to the females being shipped in that state?
I breed and sell... So I am admittedly very bias in this situation, but I figure I'll post my opinion.
As the breeder, who labors for months and spends quite a bit of money to raise a spawn, I do not want to see my fish go into sub-par conditions. Quite frankly, until I have agreed to a sale and money is in my hands, it is my fish and I reserve every right to deny sale to someone who I know will not keep the fish properly. If I know the fish is going to go into an unheated half gallon tank or a "sorority" with two females, it isn't leaving my room.
I agree that while you technically can do whatever you want with a fish after it's in your hands, it isn't the best idea. Not only because the breeder typically knows the fish better than you (and if they don't and you aren't a breeder... I would look for someone else to buy from) and generally has requirements (like no breeding or no sororities) for the sake of the health of the fish or the other fish it would go with, in the case of aggressive fish and no sorority requirements, but also because, as LBF mentioned, breeders are very connected and it really wouldn't be hard to get yourself off the "sell to" list of a bunch of breeders if you mess something up with one... Not only with requirements, but also things like timely payment and stuff like that. I've seen people in this hobby's reputations destroyed or tarnished before and I can't imagine it being fun.
On my local fishkeeping forum we have something called the "Nandopsis Clause", and it essentially means that the seller has every right to choose who to sell to. Simple, usually followed, and effective in my opinion.
Edit- Eggy females are fine, healthy, and usually just that way because of how much the breeder feeds and the exposure to males. No downsides I can think of.
Last edited by MattsBettas; 03-02-2014 at 04:13 PM.
That works. but, for what it's worth, by creating this topic, I'm not saying that I would actually do what I wanted to the fish that I bought. I would still respect the breeder/seller's wishes. I've bought male bettas before and they went into divided tanks. Hopefully that won't be a problem for people, since that's usually what I do. What are the terms that you've seen for males?
Yeah most of my females are always eggy. Nothing wrong with an eggy female.
I am lucky in that I rarely have to move fish on. When I do however, I like to first and foremost see my fish go into the hands of fellow breeders. I usually don't sell to someone who has never owned wilds before, unless I know what their reputation is like and previous experience with fish has been. Some of my fish take up to a year to fully mature, and I don't want to put all that time and effort in and have someone lost interest almost immediately and sell them, or kill them through inexperience.
I think for those breeders who are pumping out fish on a larger scale, the type of home becomes less important because they just don't have the space or resources to be as selective.