New smallscale breeding setup

[Kempberk]

Hi all,

I just want to know what you guys think of my plans. It sounds awesome to me to breed a nice turqoise HM line! Currently this are my plans:

Getting a 60ish L community tank. At first put a male in it. Later (when Ive found a nice female) I want to let him breed (and give the female to my roommate) in another tank (40ish L), a little warmer, low water, little more plants etc. When they've breeded I jar the female to give to my roommate (he might be breeding as well soon btw). When the fry gets free swimming I might let the male do some culling (some sort of natural selection). A little later Ill put the male back in the community tank. Lateron I want to put 3-4 females (sisters) in the communitytank with the dad. This way I hope to get a beautiful communitytank with a male and 3-4 females who dont eat eachother alive.

Ill have to see what ones of the spawn I can jar and pass to my roommate or other people.

How does that sound? Shoppinglist:

60L tank
40L tank
2 heaters
water conditioner
jars
net? I prefer to use a small jar for transport in order to not damage any fins.
lamp (with soft light) Because I'll keep my breedingtank under the communitytank.
topless colabottle (2L) to let the female get used to the male in.
Live plants for the breedtank
Pellets (might grind to feed spawn)
bloodworms or any other living food for conditioning

Optional:
Critters who will keep the bottom clean, like snails or low zone fish.

How about my setup? I am really curious what you guys think of it!

Kind regards

[indjo]

What ever breeding method you use is possible. Breeding is easy. Raising the fry is the hard part.

You need to read more on fry food or breeding in general. Pellets aren't good for fry, even though you grind them. Make a dot with you pen; that's about the size of newly hatched bettas. So how small can you grind pellets?

Hard boiled egg yolks may work. Squeeze it through a handkerchief or something or, even better, use a small spray. But live food works best. Infusoria, Newly hatched brine shrimp, micro worm, etc. So I suggest you prepare cultures for your fry before breeding.

[Kempberk]

Originally Posted by indjo

What ever breeding method you use is possible. Breeding is easy. Raising the fry is the hard part.

You need to read more on fry food or breeding in general. Pellets aren't good for fry, even though you grind them. Make a dot with you pen; that's about the size of newly hatched bettas. So how small can you grind pellets?

Hard boiled egg yolks may work. Squeeze it through a handkerchief or something or, even better, use a small spray. But live food works best. Infusoria, Newly hatched brine shrimp, micro worm, etc. So I suggest you prepare cultures for your fry before breeding.

Thanks for your reply. I know pellets arent ideal, I just tought it would be okay if the fry runs out of infusoria. But you suggest living food like microworms, artemia etc.? (In my heart I knew those where better options...) Thanks for the egg yolk tip :D

What about the rest of the plan? My greatest concern is, will the females be able to live together with their dad

[indjo]

Everyone here says you can't put a male and female together. But I always do. As long as there are more females than male .... naturally. lol. Anyway you need to know how they act if they wanted to spawn and separate them before they do... unless you don't mind eggs/fry becoming fish food for your community. The male will be aggressive at first but usually calms down after a while. If after 24 hours he doesn't calm down, separate him. I don't mean occasional flaring. I mean constant chasing and biting.

[Oldfishlady]

Not everybody Indjo....lol......me too-I keep a male with multi females all the time, as well as multi males and females- but I never use a tank smaller than 20gal unless I am spawning-I currently have one set-up with 5 females with one male and I don't recommend this with just any set-up...not every set-up will work-nor will every Betta work out in this type of stocking-the more experience you have in recognizing the body language the easier it is IMO.

I wouldn't recommend it with non-related fish without a back-up plan-every betta is different in what and who they will tolerate-one minute they may be fine and the next all dead or near dead or high stress that breaks down the immune response and you end up with a lot of sick/dead/dying fish....especially if you don't set it up right and even at that you have risks-you have to provide more than just hiding places you also have to kill the line-of-sight so that the less dominate can get to the top to breath without being seen or felt threatened. It is a balance and it doesn't always work even with siblings-you also have to figure out how to feed the less dominate fish too and this is another challenge in mixed sexed tank

The instinct and drive in this species and the more dominate don't stay in one place even in big tanks they go looking for others and they detect by not just sight but by hormones/pheromones and using their lateral line...its good that your idea is to try just females and one male-but then you also have to remember that some females may even attack males and kill them especially male that are too passive or unwilling/unable to breed to the females liking/demand
More things can go wrong than right.....

It can be done...just have a back-up plan....

[weluvbettas]

I also keep males with females this only works though in heavily planted tanks this way they can escape from each other

[Kempberk]

Thanks for the really helpfull replies! Bottom line is it can be done, but have a backup plan because alot can go wrong behaviour-wise right? Im thinking about getting a 60L tank with the option to divide it in 2 if 2 females and 1 male doesnt work out so I can keep the male apart from the 2 females. If the females cant get along either I just have a problem, but that will be bad luck wont it?

Another option is to buy 2 30L tanks. For breeding purposes that would probably be better (yet not sufficient, but a start) but then I gotta give up the idea of a community tank...

Damm, it really comes down to the choice of smallscale breeding vs a community tank Im afraid :(

[Kempberk]

Just a small question this time: What do you guys think of breednets? Little cubes of fabric to create compartments? I assume they excist in non-transparent version as well.

Like this:

[img]http://www.aquarium-winkel.nl/bmz_cache/0/0a9ed56edfd87d3d34078044b2ef2789.image.304x304.jpg[img]

[dramaqueen]

I wouldn't recommend keeping males and females together to beginners. IMO, only experienced fishkeepers should try it.As OFL said, it doesn't always work.

[brandonwlee]

you should advisably keep the male and females in their own jars or non see-thru compartments especially for the males. they are territorial and you only put the together when you want to spawn them. even so, it is suggested that you need to soak the female jar in the spawning tank that the male is in to reduce the agression of the male, and let him build his bubble nest. then once the bubble nest is ready, gently let go of the female into the spawning tank with the male, and they will spawn in a day or two. anyway, Our friend Indjo is absolutely right when it is the hardest part in raising the fry. If you manage to get past the first 2-3 weeks with minimal fry mortality, then you have no worries. hope you succeed.