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Old 12-15-2010, 01:43 AM   #1 
alliepie
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Fin rot? Whats happening here?? Opinions please ^_^

My little doubletail Godric the Grape has been having weird fin issues as of late. He's in a 3 gallon eclipse, filtered with a heater. The tank is not cycled (I tried... it didn't work). I do 100% water change once a week with stress coat dechlorinator. I have been adding aquarium salt and I tried melafix (which is a joke).. He eats a regular diet of Hikari pellets during the week with a treat of frozen brine shrimp on water change day (I feed him in the cup... he seems to calm down more when I give him treats in the cup). I also fast him once a week. He's still super active... he greets me like a puppy when I come home and jumps when he's super excited. He has such beautiful fins and I am so sad they seem to be deteriorating :(

What do you think? Fin rot? or tail biter?

I hope it's not tail biting... I have one of those already.










Your opinions would mean alot! I'm still learning much about my beloved fish friends!

Thanks everyone!!

Last edited by alliepie; 12-15-2010 at 01:49 AM. Reason: Pictures WAY too big! LOL Sorry!
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Old 12-15-2010, 02:11 AM   #2 
Juneii
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I am leaning towards tail biting because I think fin rot would have brown edges on the fins.
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Old 12-15-2010, 02:17 AM   #3 
alliepie
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Really?!? UGH... I'm so busy with school it's like they get spiteful because I am not around to give them constant attention.

Whats going on in those little fishbrains!?!
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Old 12-15-2010, 02:26 AM   #4 
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Fin rot or tail biting (which if not treated may turn into fin rot) I'd suggest starting on Aquarium Salt, I've seen varying doses from 1/2 teaspoon to 1 teaspoon per gallon, to speed up the healing process. Hopefully someone more experienced will come by and verify the correct dosage. Best of luck!
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Old 12-15-2010, 08:14 AM   #5 
Oldfishlady
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What a beautiful Betta and such a shame about his tail.....I am sure you have already done this...but make sure nothing in the tank is a cause-like plastic plants, decorations, large stones that can pinch the fins-it does look somewhat like biting but it also looks like the edges are discolored as well-hard to tell if it is new growth or rot (old computer and the colors are distorted)

He is in 3g filtered tank that gets weekly 100% water changes-do you have the filter baffled and are you using the bio-wheel-if we have the same eclispe 3 the water flow can be a bit strong-I removed the bio-wheel and placed polly-fill in that section to slow the flow down-sometimes the water flow itself can be a cause of stress and/or injury on the heavy fins

You post that you can't get it to cycle...why? do you have water pram numbers you can post for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH

I see a mirror-limit this to 5-10 min a couple of times a day-if you don't already do that

If you are going to do 100% water changes anyway-why not remove the filter all together

I would add a 50% water only change to your 100% weekly water change schedule

At this point for treatment you can go two ways because it doesn't look too bad right now
Treat in the 3gal or treat in QT

Treatment in the tank-remove the filter and start a 50% daily water changes for a week-10 days-add tannins either from Indian almond leaf or naturally dried and fallen from the tree Oak leaf-with or without aquarium salt 1tsp/gal, however, salt treatment is best in QT-but you can still do it in the tank with 50% WC's-I would pre-mix the salt and tannins in a couple of 1gal jugs to help make correct salt dosage with the water change...*note-if you have live plants you may want to remove them or use Epsom salt instead of aquarium salt-some species of live plants can't tolerate Aquarium salt

In QT-you can float the QT container in the heated tank to maintain temp and with the pre-mix 1gal jug of-aquarium salt 1tsp/gal, dechlorinator, Tannins from either 1-large crushed IAL or 10-12/gal crushed oak leaf-use this water for 100% daily water changes for 10 days

Nutrition is also important for healing-a varied diet and increase in protein with either frozen or live foods-small frequent meals are best 4-5 times a day but not to the point of bloat

What is your water temp?

Last edited by Oldfishlady; 12-15-2010 at 08:18 AM.
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Old 12-17-2010, 10:03 PM   #6 
alliepie
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Sorry it took so long to reply. Finals have been kicking my butt this week. Thanks for checking out my post oldfishlady. I know everyone in the forum really respects your expertise.

It is really sad. I don't know how to fix this problem.

The edges to his fins have always been white. There is significant white on his anal fin that I am pretty positive is new growth. I don't believe there is anything in his tank that could damage his fins. All silk plants + a little bridge for him to hide under.

I don't have the filter baffled. It didn't seem like it bothered him that much. I always try to put the big plants under the filter to break up the current somewhat. I'll try the poly fill idea. I guess there is no reason to use the biowheel anywayz if the tank isn't cycled. Although I did take out the filter for a week and there didn't seem to be any improvement. I tried to cycle the tank w/ ammonia (pure ammonia) when I first got the tank, but after 2 weeks my numbers were way off. They weren't following the normal cycle pattern... since he was in a little bowl I opted to scrap the cycling and just put him in the tank.

Yeah the little mirror is only in there for a couple minutes for him. I leave it in alot longer for my other fish (which is a confirmed tail-biter... I caught him in the act), because I think he bites his tail because he is bored.

So you think I should add a 50% water change say mid-week in addition to the 100% I do once a week?

Where can I find the indian almond leaf?? I think I only saw it on aquabid.

How big could a quarantine container be?? I just have his 1 gallon bowl, but it's too big to float in the eclipse (that stupid piece of plastic down the middle is such a pain.) You're right... that sounds like a much easier way to do the water changes. I have a bunch of one gallon jugs I use to keep their water in.

.... ewww... live foods... when I first got Godric he wouldn't eat... took a week, but theres a transhipper down the street from me who gave me some live bloodworms to try and coax him to eat. I bought Godric from him so I suspected that in Thailand where he came from he got all live food. He LOVED the worms... he ate right away after that. Problem is the worms make me want to vomit.... and I didn't want to keep them in my fridge with all my food cuz they smelled BAD. Is there any kind of other live food that you suggest?? I don't think I can deal with those again. I give him pellets, freeze dried blood worms and frozen brine shrimp. Maybe I'll start feeding him the shrimp every other day instead of once a week.

I have a 10w marineland heater in there so the temperature is suppose to stay @ 78 degrees. Unfortunately it never seems to stay constant and varies, but never gets too cold.

I tried covering his tank with a towel thinking maybe it would calm him down. He swims around quite a bit at night when the light is on. I am pretty sure he is biting his fins. he swims in circles and his tail kind of hits him in the face.

Thanks for all your help! I don't trust the pet store people -_-
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Old 12-17-2010, 10:41 PM   #7 
Oldfishlady
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Sorry-I think I may have confused you.....on the water changes-with a filter you really don't need the 100% water changes, the tank will cycle in time-regardless of filtration 3gal needs at least twice weekly water changes-but if you turn off the filter and remove it...1-100% and 1-50% a week and with the filter twice weekly 50% water changes and 1 of the water change you need to do substrate cleaning....

Filters are usually not so much of a problem in 3gal tanks-but sometimes the filter can be part of the fin problems from the water flow itself even when it doesn't appear to bother him....the water flow can cause a "flag in the wind" kinda effect especially with Bettas that have long heavy fins...not saying that is his problem...just a thought.....

When you QT to treat you need to find something really small that can be floated in the heated tank so you can maintain water temp in the QT container-but-removing the filter for treatment may work fine as well in the 3gal that he is in and do 50% daily water changes-with or without the aquarium salt-just stay with the 100% at least every 7 days like you are already doing if you remove the filter....sometimes all they need it still water that is clean..It can take time for them to heal-but with the white edges-I agree, it most likely new growth and he just needs more time...just hope he is not a tail bitter....that can be a challenge.....

IAL-the only place I know to get it is on-line....I like to use native oak leaf personally-it 99% the same as IAL and its Free...lol....but not everyone has access to native oak leaves like I do.....

So true-I won't keep cultures in my fridge either.....if I can't grow them outside the fridge I won't use them...but I also have access to other native critters that I use along with my homemade food...frozen will work too...or just get enough of the culture from the transhipper and keep in an ice chest since you are so close by....but since you have him eating other foods they should be fine...

If he is a tail bitter....you got your work cut out for you thats for sure....
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Old 12-17-2010, 10:55 PM   #8 
alliepie
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OK... I'll take all your suggestions into consideration for sure.

I just had a thought though...

If it's tail biting... My first fish Freddie was originally at work in a very small glass bowl(no heater) and I had him for 4 months in it. He seemed pretty happy for the most part until his snail died. After the snail died he started the tail biting. His tail used to be so long and pretty. Now he won't let it grow at all. Do you think it could have been the loss of his snail? He used to mess with it all the time. Maybe I could get them both a snail and they'll stop biting their tails.

What do you think? Am I just thinking too much about it? hahaha I'm just trying to figure out what would make them bite off their pretty tails.
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Old 12-17-2010, 11:20 PM   #9 
Oldfishlady
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Most likely what happened when the snail died- it cause an ammonia spike that stressed the Betta and that caused the new behavior of tail biting....just a thought.......I don't think fish perceive pain the same as mammals, however, IMO-they do know or sense the changes as far as water prams and the effects it can have on them...not pain per se that can be caused by ammonia burns so much as that they sense the difference...hard to explain...... just an opinion......

Back to a snail in the tank...I always think it is a good idea to add them- not so much for the Betta..... but for the little ecosystem in a closed system and the snail can help create somewhat of a distraction of sorts......and maybe provide entertainment for them in a sense.......another opinion.....lol.....
I am a naturalist and so I think everything has a reason for being...laffs....
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