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Old 01-02-2011, 09:29 PM   #1 
NIB BETTA
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Anyone experienced with breeding super blacks?

Does anyone have any recent information on breeding super black bettas? I have read information on breeding black bettas on www.bettysplendens.com, but the information is very old and does not reference anything about super blacks.

Technically a super black is a betta that has no visible irids, however you will see breeders list their bettas as super blacks if their betta has just a slight amount of blue irids.

I was able to find a forum in which someone has consistently bred true super blacks. But he is extremely guarded about the breeding pair he uses. The only thing he would confirm is that one of his super black fry did come from a melano father.

From my hours of research, it seems as though no one truly has cracked the code on breeding super blacks. I canít even begin to list some of the things people have said about breeding blacks. One breeder said without a doubt that the only infertile females are melanos and that super black females are fertile. Then another said that he has bred super blacks using a melano female with a super black male.

At this point I'm just ready to select a male and female and just go for it.

Here are some pictures of what I want to accomplish.
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Old 01-02-2011, 09:34 PM   #2 
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Here are my black males. Two were listed as super blacks. My melano has lost his butterfly tale and now has completely black fins.
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Old 01-02-2011, 09:38 PM   #3 
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The member here Mr.Vampire has a pair of super blacks...
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Old 01-02-2011, 09:38 PM   #4 
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And here is one of my females.

My other two females are super blacks but they have red tint in their fins.
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Old 01-02-2011, 09:40 PM   #5 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beat2020 View Post
The member here Mr.Vampire has a pair of super blacks...
Thank you, I will send him a PM. I know he has a lot of experience breeding. I'm just so frustrated because you can never get a clear answer.
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Old 01-02-2011, 09:55 PM   #6 
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You can't go by a color name when breeding... a breeder can call any manner of black fish a "super black". To get the black you want you are talking about Melano black and have to use fish with the melano geno type. Your black lace males will not give you the no iridescence look you want. It also looks like your going to be dealing with the marble gene so you can't really know what to expect color wise.

I'm not inclined to trust a breeder who is guarded about their lines. A true lover of the fish would do his best to improve the Betta in general, which would mean being open about his line and what he uses. Look at MartinisMommy.. you can ask her any number of questions about the backgrounds of her fish and to see pictures of the parents, etc.


Anywhoo to start off with you'll want a Melano Black male with little to no irridescence and a melano geno female. From there you can select for little iridescence from the fry. Iridescence is virtually impossible to fully get rid of in a line... at least lack of iridescence has not been proven to breed true yet.

I've heard tell of people successfully breeding a melano female so that might be something to try in the future.
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Old 01-02-2011, 09:58 PM   #7 
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A super black is actually a new development. Instead of being based on blue to get black (melano) super black uses copper to achieve the black. Super black bettas lack inridescent in the body (good thing) but they may have a tiny amount of copper in the fins, most of the time it's not noticeable.

When it comes to black you need to get blacks based on what gene the black is controlled by. Melanos can't be bred to a black lace because two different genes control the black coloring.
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Old 01-02-2011, 10:10 PM   #8 
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All I know abou blacks is that melano is based on the iridescence,super blacks are copper based and black lace deals with the marble gene.
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Old 01-02-2011, 10:17 PM   #9 
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[quote=1fish2fish;549378]It also looks like your going to be dealing with the marble gene so you can't really know what to expect color wise.

That's what I was afraid of.



I'm not inclined to trust a breeder who is guarded about their lines. A true lover of the fish would do his best to improve the Betta in general, which would mean being open about his line and what he uses.



Agreed. Unfortunately, he seems to be driven by competition and money. I have seen pictures of his fry and all of them were black. Some darker than others, but still black. He loves to show them off and sell them, but you won't get the genetics of the parents unless you know him. I understand it has probably taken him years to accomplish his goals, but it really sucks that he won't post his trials and errors.


Anywhoo to start off with you'll want a Melano Black male with little to no irridescence and a melano geno female.


I think that is the key, the problem is I have never seen a melano male with no iridescence. I'm sure they are pretty rare. I think I am going to breed my melano male with the female I have pictured and then try later on with one of my super black females.

Unfortunately, I will have to disregard the second male pictured. He has way too much blue lace to attempt to breed for super black. But I do love his blue eyes.
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Old 01-02-2011, 10:19 PM   #10 
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I'd like to seem some pedigrees on those fish with notes on percentages of "super black" in the spawn. It also seems that the nomenclature is still misleading since it can be used for a melano/black lace cross as well as this copper based stuff.

The HM male first posted is a melano or melano based.. I've definitely seen enough to know one. The HMPK is misleading because of the bad picture.. it could be a super black, black lace, or melano.
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