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Old 02-10-2011, 07:28 PM   #1 
tommyt
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fish going for air frequently and rarely moves

Housing
What size is your tank? 10 gal
What temperature is your tank? 85
Does your tank have a filter? yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? two small algae eaters, african dwarf frog, 4 ghost shrimp


3 plants, and a piece of wood


Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? he refuses to eat anything but aqueon tropical flakes. I have Hikari, omega one, and bloodworms
How often do you feed your betta fish?
once a day

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? about once a month
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 50%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Dechlorinator (if needed),

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters? Yes

Ammonia: everything clear
Nitrite: everything clear
pH: everything clear
Hardness: everything clear
Alkalinity: everything clear


Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? His stomach looks a little bloated
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? He is lethargic. Usually, he is hiding in a cup. He sometimes lays on the bottom, on his side. He will sometimes float vertically with his head up. He also goes up for water fairly often. Seems disoriented at times.

He is still eating but not much.

When did you start noticing the symptoms? probably about 2 weeks ago. It only started to happen fairly often. He is been acting like this for the last 2 days.

Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Betta tap water treatment with almond leaf extract

Does your fish have any history of being ill? No

How old is your fish (approximately)?
1.5 - 2 years?
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:40 PM   #2 
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:52 PM   #3 
Oldfishlady
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Welcome to the forum.....

Most likely the problem is related to water quality and stocking....I would start by making some 50% daily water changes for the next couple of days...provided that your nitrate is less than 20ppm...if higher than 20ppm-you need to make 10% water changes daily and increase the percent by 10% every 3 days until you reach 50% and then 50% back to back and then 50% weekly with vacuuming in all places that can be reached without moving anything or disruption of plant roots thereafter to maintain water quality and safe nitrate levels...

If you have CAE-you may want to look at re-homing them in the near future....as they mature they stop eating algae and start sucking the slime coat off slow moving fish at night like the Betta.....

Are you on well water?....I ask because you posted that you use declorinator on an as needed basis...

You may also want to lower your water temp some-although 85F is within range long term it is best to keep it in the 76-80F range

What kind of live plants do you have?

With the symptoms-I would QT him in a small container that can be floated in the heated tank and start an Epsom salt 1tsp/gal (Not aquarium salt) along with 100% daily water changes for 10 days, however, I would get the water quality of the 10gal tank straighten out first so you don't shock him with any sudden changes and if he doesn't improve after that then I would start the Epsom salt treatment....
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:16 PM   #4 
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Originally Posted by Oldfishlady View Post
Welcome to the forum.....

OldFishLady, you really are a wonder! Thank you so much for all you do for this forum and the fish and people in trouble- you are deeply appreciated.
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:34 PM   #5 
tommyt
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Originally Posted by Oldfishlady View Post
Welcome to the forum.....

Most likely the problem is related to water quality and stocking....I would start by making some 50% daily water changes for the next couple of days...provided that your nitrate is less than 20ppm...if higher than 20ppm-you need to make 10% water changes daily and increase the percent by 10% every 3 days until you reach 50% and then 50% back to back and then 50% weekly with vacuuming in all places that can be reached without moving anything or disruption of plant roots thereafter to maintain water quality and safe nitrate levels...

If you have CAE-you may want to look at re-homing them in the near future....as they mature they stop eating algae and start sucking the slime coat off slow moving fish at night like the Betta.....

Are you on well water?....I ask because you posted that you use declorinator on an as needed basis...

You may also want to lower your water temp some-although 85F is within range long term it is best to keep it in the 76-80F range

What kind of live plants do you have?

With the symptoms-I would QT him in a small container that can be floated in the heated tank and start an Epsom salt 1tsp/gal (Not aquarium salt) along with 100% daily water changes for 10 days, however, I would get the water quality of the 10gal tank straighten out first so you don't shock him with any sudden changes and if he doesn't improve after that then I would start the Epsom salt treatment....

Thanks for the help.


I went ahead and did a 50% water change because the nitrates were lower than 20 ppm.

I tested the water and everything looks fine except for acidity. It says it is high. I have never seen that before. How do treat it?

I am not on well water. I have never had issues with the city water here. I check the water every time it was changed. Only on a couple of occassions, I felt that dechlorinator was needed.

This is the first time I have had any issues with acidity or anything else.
I am not sure of the name of the plants..

Thanks for the information about the CAEs. I did not know that. I will move them.
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:48 PM   #6 
Oldfishlady
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As the tank ages and normal decomp of organic matter the water can become acidic...what you need to do to prevent this is regular water changes...

What is your pH of the tank water, source water, source water after 24h de-gas (no dechlorinator added) and source water with dechlorinater and 24h de-gas?

If after a couple of days of the 50% water changes the Betta doesn't improve...post and I can give you the Epsom salt treatment for buoyancy issues.

Since you are not on well water-make sure you use dechlorinator with any new/fresh water added to the fish to cover chlorine and chloramines-especially if you are in the US....both of these can be deadly to a fish....
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:56 PM   #7 
tommyt
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Originally Posted by Oldfishlady View Post
As the tank ages and normal decomp of organic matter the water can become acidic...what you need to do to prevent this is regular water changes...

What is your pH of the tank water, source water, source water after 24h de-gas (no dechlorinator added) and source water with dechlorinater and 24h de-gas?

If after a couple of days of the 50% water changes the Betta doesn't improve...post and I can give you the Epsom salt treatment for buoyancy issues.

Since you are not on well water-make sure you use dechlorinator with any new/fresh water added to the fish to cover chlorine and chloramines-especially if you are in the US....both of these can be deadly to a fish....
Thanks again!

"What is your pH of the tank water, source water, source water after 24h de-gas (no dechlorinator added) and source water with dechlorinater and 24h de-gas?"


The pH is what I was speaking of when I said it was acidic. The issue appears to be coming from the tap.
I tested the water before and after the water change. It did not test as acidic before the water change. It tested high afterwards.

I have not tried a de-gas. What does that mean?

Also, I did add dechlorinator this time around.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:28 AM   #8 
Oldfishlady
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To get an accurate pH of the source water-it needs to gas out for 24 hours...its better if you add an air stone to a freshly poured clean glass of water from your tap-let this glass of source water gas-out for 24 hours and re-test the pH and compare to the freshly drawn tap or source water and compare the numbers...usually the 24h de-gassed water pH will be lower and the number difference will be the CO2 content....then you add your dechalorinator to this water-test pH and compare numbers-this tells you if the dechlorinator changes the pH...now test the tank water pH and compare this number...this will tell you if something in the tank is causing a pH change.......

When a tank ages the organic matter in the tank naturally decay or decomp and especially when the tank lacks regular water changes-the decomp process can cause the water to become more acid or the pH to lower
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:26 PM   #9 
tommyt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldfishlady View Post
To get an accurate pH of the source water-it needs to gas out for 24 hours...its better if you add an air stone to a freshly poured clean glass of water from your tap-let this glass of source water gas-out for 24 hours and re-test the pH and compare to the freshly drawn tap or source water and compare the numbers...usually the 24h de-gassed water pH will be lower and the number difference will be the CO2 content....then you add your dechalorinator to this water-test pH and compare numbers-this tells you if the dechlorinator changes the pH...now test the tank water pH and compare this number...this will tell you if something in the tank is causing a pH change.......

When a tank ages the organic matter in the tank naturally decay or decomp and especially when the tank lacks regular water changes-the decomp process can cause the water to become more acid or the pH to lower


Thanks again. You are a great help. I will try that now.
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