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Old 03-20-2011, 09:39 PM   #1 
Jupiter
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Not betta advice, but...

Well, today was our new year. One of the traditions is buying some goldfish to keep in a bowl along with the rest of the elaborate table set up.

Before, we'd keep the goldfish for a while in the bowl, unfortunately.
For the last few years we just took a few of my dad's platies because we didn't have time to go buy a goldfish. But today we bought one & I know better than to keep it in a little bowl now.

So what I have on hand right now is a spare 10 gallon tank with a filter, some chollo wood, and fake plants. Will it be okay in that for a couple of months, until I can come back home and give him a bigger tank? They need at least 20 gallons, right?

Can i give him the same freeze dried treats that I give my bettas? What about vegetables?

Anyway, any goldfish advice will be really appreacited! I have no experience with goldfish keeping, but I really want the best for my new guy! I love him a lot already.

I think he may be an oranda, I'm not sure. I'll try to take a picture of him tomorrow.

Oh, and norouz mobarak for any other Persians here! :D

Last edited by Jupiter; 03-20-2011 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:47 PM   #2 
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A fancy goldfish needs 20 gallons, a common goldfish needs 55 gallons. You should feed him goldfish flakes, vegetables, and occasionally bloodworms. He may be fine a 10 for a couple months, but it will stunt his growth. If he is an oranda, 20 gallons is fine, but I recommend 30+ because I have seen some huge orandas. You need lots of water changes, 25-50% a week, and a filter for 10-15 gallons larger.
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Old 03-20-2011, 10:05 PM   #3 
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Thanks shinybetta! So I'll work on getting him a bigger tank once I come back, my parents should be fine with it if it's in my room and I pay for it.

So let me get this straight, if I buy him a 20 gallon tank for example, I should get him a filter that's made for 30 gallons? They sure are messy guys.

And for vegetables, is there a specific kind I should feed him? Lettuce or zucchini or something?
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:03 PM   #4 
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You might want to pm Lupin about the goldfish. He knows everything about them.
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:06 PM   #5 
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Lettuce and pea's are good.
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:17 AM   #6 
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Alright. I'm going to be setting up his tank tomorrow, so I'll post a picture too & I'll offer a piece of lettuce. :)

I'll pm Lupin too, thanks for the tip DQ. Btw, is that a new girl in your avi? Very cute!
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Old 03-21-2011, 06:34 AM   #7 
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Lucky this isn't a singletail goldfish or you'd need a much bigger tank/tub just for one as they grow to 18 inches in length at most. Assuming you do have an oranda, then a 20g is really the bare minimum. Suits one just fine. Click the goldfish name. It will lead you to the profile. I updated it recently but I need to add my other article which is more detailed for everyone's convenience.
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Old 03-21-2011, 06:36 AM   #8 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinybetta View Post
A fancy goldfish needs 20 gallons, a common goldfish needs 55 gallons. You should feed him goldfish flakes, vegetables, and occasionally bloodworms. He may be fine a 10 for a couple months, but it will stunt his growth. If he is an oranda, 20 gallons is fine, but I recommend 30+ because I have seen some huge orandas. You need lots of water changes, 25-50% a week, and a filter for 10-15 gallons larger.

No goldfish flakes for all round bodied fancies. They're absolute crap and can cause a majority of the goldfish to float quickly after consuming them.

Here's an excerpt about goldfish foods. Still needs polishing but I haven't the time lately to fix it.


Quote:
Food

Food is one of the factors that are overlooked greatly by several enthusiasts. Never forget the saying, “you are what you eat”. Goldfish obviously need proper nutrition if they must be kept for a long time. I have noticed petstores in general sell cheap fishfoods which do not have the proper ingredients and nutritional value without influencing the body functions of the fish adversely. A lot of people buy them without bothering to ask whether that particular product is even suitable for tropical fish or coldwater fish. To them, as long as it fits their budget, it is okay but what if that particular brand becomes the culprit of digestive upsets and buoyancy problems suffered by the fish as a result of ignorance?

Floating Foods in Correlation to Buoyancy Issues
I had been questioning for some time what exactly causes buoyancy problems. This had been a mystery to me because I found myself hounded by this question every time someone asks me how his fish got buoyancy problems. Many people alleged floating foods are the main cause. I chose to believe this in spite of myself feeding my own fancy goldfish floating pellets. After conducting several researches, I found that some goldfish tend to become “floaty” when they are fed with pellets regardless of whether it is floating or sinking although some alleged their fish gets “floaty” with floating pellets and this was remedied only by using sinking pellets or gel foods.

Flakes
In many cases, flake foods have been avoided by goldfish enthusiasts for two main reasons: a. floating, and b. vitamins cannot be retained in them. Both points are valid.

When flakes float, the fish tends to ingest air in the process thus when it becomes trapped in the GI tract, it can cause buoyancy issues to the fish in question. Flakes also contain air itself and can expand quickly. As quickly as the fish would eat, the flakes expand themselves inside the digestive system of the fish thus making the fish prone to bloat or constipation.

Unlike pellets, flakes cannot retain the vitamins that they have been injected with due to high surface area and exposure to air and light which destroy the vitamins in the process. Aside from that, vitamins are water soluble and can easily be leached out of the water. As vitamins are best obtained by ingestion, the fish may be unable to utilize all the needed vitamins if they leach out of the food.

Starchy Foods
Although this theory in the first paragraph for floating foods does have a valid point, I believe we should all look into the ingredients used. Considering some fish get unusually “floaty” with either floating or sinking pellets, it could be the ingredients that are easily the culprit yet overlooked.

So what makes the ingredients of the food the possible culprit? Several food analysts who studied the ingredients and guaranteed analysis of particular brands suggested that the starch-based foods are the culprit. A lot of food products contain starch. It is added in the food to weigh in the protein content needed by the young fish. While it does weigh in to the protein content, it contains very little nutritional value thus making it worthless for use despite the claims that it helps with fish growth due to the alleged high protein content. Even though goldfish do not have stomach and digestive enzymes needed to digest the food well, they have bacteria in their digestive system that help digest the foods and at the same time, producing gas as they digest the starch particularly soybean meal and yeast which when trapped, will cause the fish to lose its buoyancy partially or completely.

Unfortunately almost all food products contain starch or grain-based ingredients such as soybean meal, yeast, wheat flour, wheaten gluten meal, brewer’s dried yeast, soy protein concentrate, rolled oats, etc. The only way to choose your food products is make sure the wheat ingredients do not make up most of the top ingredients (preferably the first five) as the arrangement of the ingredients indicate chronological order of the ingredient portions taking up the food most to the least. If possible, stick to brands where fish meal and krill meal take up the top places followed by a few grain-based ingredients (although I would still minimize the amount of starch involved as much as possible).

Sugary Foods
Sugary foods are not necessarily bad. Most plant matter contains carbohydrates in the complex form. In fact, goldfish do convert carbohydrates into fat deposits and many of the heavier bodied varieties would not develop properly without the appropriate amount of complex carbs in their diets.

The problem comes with simple carbs. Simple carbs are smaller molecules, digest easily and therefore are easily converted to fats. Too much fats causes health problems in fish, reptiles, dogs, cats, just like in people. Heart disease, obesity, fatty deposits on the liver and other organs, hypertension, are all potential dangers of over ingesting simple
carbohydrates. So, while it is important for goldfish to have carbs in their diet, it is also important that they receive them from a plant matter source that is high in fiber to balance over all health.

Most vegetables, in their raw state, contain complex carbohydrates only. It is not until after they are cooked that the sugars convert.

Frozen Foods
As far as frozen foods are concerned, there is also a danger of a Vitamin B and thiamine deficiency, as freezing depletes those levels. That is why it is also important to use a multivitamin such as Centrum in prepared diets.
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Old 03-21-2011, 11:36 AM   #9 
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Thank you Lupin. I'll definitely be getting him something like a 25 gallon tank when I come back from college.

If flakes aren't good, is there something else I should be feeding him as a staple?

(I keep saying 'him', I actually don't know what the gender is. I named him Lucien though. )
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Old 03-21-2011, 04:39 PM   #10 
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Okay, sorry to double post but it won't let me edit my last post...

So I went out with my mom today & while I was out I got Lucien some food. I got him some sinking pellets for goldfish and he ate two already. Are those okay?

And here are some pictures of him, like I promised! Sorry they're not very good, he moves around a lot! Isn't he cute though? :D
Can anyone tell what breed he is?











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