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Old 03-30-2011, 12:38 AM   #1 
Iziezi
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Question Not Sure What's Wrong With Penfold


Penfold's not feeling good, but I'm not sure what's wrong. His fins are all clamped, it looks like maybe he's been biting his tail, but the two indents are nearly perfect reflections of each other so I wondered if that was just the way his fins were growing. He's not as active as Dobby was, and spends a lot of time hiding in the pagoda or deep in the java fern leaves. The top of his body is a dull brown color while the rest is shimmery turquoise. There is brown stuff that "grows" on the pagoda and the air hose too, I'm wondering if that's what is on his head and the top of his body?

HOUSING
What size is your tank? 1 Gallon
What temperature is your tank? 80F
Does your tank have a filter? No
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? I have a small bubble stone that I turn on for a few minutes once a day.
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None

FOOD
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Hikari Betta Bio-Gold pellets most of the time, dried Hikari blood worms once in a while.
How often do you feed your betta fish? Usually twice a day, 3 to 4 pellets.

MAINTENANCE
How often do you perform a water change? Every two weeks, because the starter bacteria keeps the ammonia levels down.
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 100 %
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? AquaSafe, VitaChem Fresh Formula, SafeStart Live Bacteria

WATER PARAMETERS
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: unknown (my test tube broke)
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 8.0
Hardness: 50
Alkalinity: 120

SYMPTOMS & TREATMENT
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? His fins are clamped, and he is a dull brown color on the top of his head and along his body, and it looks as though he may be biting his tail in two spots parallel to each other.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Mostly quiet, not very active.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Last week, so I changed his water 100% on Saturday, but Penfold's condition hasn't improved.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Not yet, other than changing his water.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? Not that I know of.
How old is your fish (approximately)? Less than a year old.
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:13 AM   #2 
PewPewPew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iziezi View Post

Penfold's not feeling good, but I'm not sure what's wrong. His fins are all clamped, it looks like maybe he's been biting his tail, but the two indents are nearly perfect reflections of each other so I wondered if that was just the way his fins were growing. He's not as active as Dobby was, and spends a lot of time hiding in the pagoda or deep in the java fern leaves. The top of his body is a dull brown color while the rest is shimmery turquoise. There is brown stuff that "grows" on the pagoda and the air hose too, I'm wondering if that's what is on his head and the top of his body?

Lots of bettas of common coloration have brownish scales on their heads...is that it? Or is it fuzzy?

HOUSING
What size is your tank? 1 Gallon Perhaps try a larger tank? He might not like the space. Its fine, so long as WC are made, but sometimes they like more space.
What temperature is your tank? 80F
Does your tank have a filter? No
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? I have a small bubble stone that I turn on for a few minutes once a day.
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? None

FOOD
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Hikari Betta Bio-Gold pellets most of the time, dried Hikari blood worms once in a while.
How often do you feed your betta fish? Usually twice a day, 3 to 4
Total of 6-8 pellets? I would cut back to 2-3 twice a day, 3 being steep..3-5 seems good for the whole day.


MAINTENANCE
How often do you perform a water change? Every two weeks, because the starter bacteria keeps the ammonia levels down.
...What? Can you clarify? And are you certain? Have you preformed a test? You never know unless you test. I cant even go that long in my cycled 5. It could be the ammonia.
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 100 % Do you acclimate properly? This is very important.
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? AquaSafe, VitaChem Fresh Formula, SafeStart Live Bacteria

WATER PARAMETERS
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: unknown (my test tube broke)
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 8.0
Hardness: 50
Alkalinity: 120

SYMPTOMS & TREATMENT
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? His fins are clamped, and he is a dull brown color on the top of his head and along his body, and it looks as though he may be biting his tail in two spots parallel to each other.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Mostly quiet, not very active.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Last week, so I changed his water 100% on Saturday, but Penfold's condition hasn't improved.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Not yet, other than changing his water.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? Not that I know of.
How old is your fish (approximately)? Less than a year old.
The clamped fins lead me to believe it might be the water. I know you said you have the bacteria in there, but I can honestly say I dont think that makes it so you can go that long wothnot a change. I cant go that long in a 5 thats already cycled/has its own bacteria. Too much ammonia could very easily cause this. Even if this hasnt always been the case, you if youve had him like this for a while, too much ammonia will cause issue in the long run and may arise suddenly.
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Old 03-30-2011, 05:30 PM   #3 
Iziezi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PewPewPew View Post
Originally Posted by Iziezi

Penfold's not feeling good, but I'm not sure what's wrong. His fins are all clamped, it looks like maybe he's been biting his tail, but the two indents are nearly perfect reflections of each other so I wondered if that was just the way his fins were growing. He's not as active as Dobby was, and spends a lot of time hiding in the pagoda or deep in the java fern leaves. The top of his body is a dull brown color while the rest is shimmery turquoise. There is brown stuff that "grows" on the pagoda and the air hose too, I'm wondering if that's what is on his head and the top of his body?

Lots of bettas of common coloration have brownish scales on their heads...is that it? Or is it fuzzy?
It doesn't look fuzzy, but it doesn't look like scales either. I wish I could get a decent photo to show you...

HOUSING
What size is your tank? 1 Gallon Perhaps try a larger tank? He might not like the space. Its fine, so long as WC are made, but sometimes they like more space.

FOOD
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Hikari Betta Bio-Gold pellets most of the time, dried Hikari blood worms once in a while.
How often do you feed your betta fish? Usually twice a day, 3 to 4
Total of 6-8 pellets? I would cut back to 2-3 twice a day, 3 being steep..3-5 seems good for the whole day.

MAINTENANCE
How often do you perform a water change? Every two weeks, because the starter bacteria keeps the ammonia levels down.
...What? Can you clarify? And are you certain? Have you preformed a test? You never know unless you test. I cant even go that long in my cycled 5. It could be the ammonia.
[FONT="Georgia"]I was changing the water the same way for Dobby, and I had the liquid ammonia test kit. After two weeks, the ammonia levels would be 0.5[/font]

What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 100 % Do you acclimate properly? This is very important.
When I change the water, I heat up the new clean water to about 80F (I float the thermometer in the water while heating), then when it's all prepared and in the tank, I transfer Penfold back into the tank. The temperature is about the same from the old water to the new.


The clamped fins lead me to believe it might be the water. I know you said you have the bacteria in there, but I can honestly say I dont think that makes it so you can go that long wothnot a change. I cant go that long in a 5 thats already cycled/has its own bacteria. Too much ammonia could very easily cause this. Even if this hasnt always been the case, you if youve had him like this for a while, too much ammonia will cause issue in the long run and may arise suddenly.
I've got Penfold in a hospital cup now. I'm using aquarium salt and BettaFix. He's not happy in there, he's swimming around like crazy. He also dropped a really big poop.


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Old 03-30-2011, 05:45 PM   #4 
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Proper acclimation also calls for him to receive small doses of the new water. While having the temp around the same is good, the new water can still be shocking to him and should be added into his cup every 5 minutes at least for 10.

CAn you google a pic that sort of looks like it?

Bettafix is generally not a recommended medication on this forum. It is a watered down version of a medication that damages the betta's labrinthe organ. I suggest you stop using it, and continue with the salt. Your tank is small enough to just leave him in there, btw- which makes dosing much easier. 1tsp/gallon of AQ salt.

Also, .5 is high. It is worse at prolonged levels, and ideally should be at or under .25ppm.

Im very confused as to why you have the bacteria in there. You cant cycle a one gallon without a filter..

For now I honestly recommend you discontinue the bacteria stuff and put him back into the tank. Do daily 100% changes to the water, redosing the salt each day after you clean it.

See if this helps him.
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Old 03-30-2011, 06:57 PM   #5 
Iziezi
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by PewPewPew View Post
Proper acclimation also calls for him to receive small doses of the new water. While having the temp around the same is good, the new water can still be shocking to him and should be added into his cup every 5 minutes at least for 10.

CAn you google a pic that sort of looks like it?

Bettafix is generally not a recommended medication on this forum. It is a watered down version of a medication that damages the betta's labrinthe organ. I suggest you stop using it, and continue with the salt. Your tank is small enough to just leave him in there, btw- which makes dosing much easier. 1tsp/gallon of AQ salt.

Also, .5 is high. It is worse at prolonged levels, and ideally should be at or under .25ppm.

Im very confused as to why you have the bacteria in there. You cant cycle a one gallon without a filter..

For now I honestly recommend you discontinue the bacteria stuff and put him back into the tank. Do daily 100% changes to the water, redosing the salt each day after you clean it.

See if this helps him.
I was finally able to get a good picture of his fins:



Poor Penfold, he's got stress stripes too, now that he's in the hospital cup.

The reason I have been putting bacteria in his tank is simply to help control the ammonia so I wouldn't need to change the water as often. A Betta expert friend told me that changing the water even once a week stresses them out too much. Without the bacteria, the ammonia levels would get to 0.5 in a week, and after I started using it, the ammonia levels would only be .25 after a week.

I don't know what to do. There are so many conflicting suggestions. Change the water more often. Change it less often. Put him in a hospital cup. Leave him in his tank. It seems like no matter what I do, it's going to stress him out and make him worse.
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:30 PM   #6 
Iziezi
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I've got Penfold in a Hospital cup. (The little cup he came in.) Should I change the water once a day or more?

Also, how long should it take before his fins start unclamping? They haven't unclamped at all since I put him in last night, although he is swimming around normally. I hate to see his beautiful fins all clamped up like this, and tattered. :(

I've noticed there is some white fuzzy/stringy stuff floating in the hospital water this morning. I've seen that in his regular tank too, I had assumed it was the live bacteria? Except I didn't put any in his hospital cup...

Thank you, PewPewPew for all the help and advice I've received so far...

Last edited by Iziezi; 03-31-2011 at 02:37 PM. Reason: additional info
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:57 PM   #7 
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Just about water change it should be once a day. U have to do it every day for 10 days. And u have add 1tsp/gall of aquarium salt every day with 100%water changes.
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Old 03-31-2011, 05:34 PM   #8 
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I would say your friend is not an expert, personally. I realize that stress isn't good but toxic ammonia is worse in my opinion. Turn the light out in your tank and let him try to calm down in the dark.
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Old 03-31-2011, 09:46 PM   #9 
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Sorry i also think for 1 gall and 80* water should be change 100% every 4 days.
I don't know but i think the warmer the temperature the more chances bacteria and fungus to grow,specially if u don't change water on time.

Let us know know how he doing.
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Old 03-31-2011, 09:58 PM   #10 
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Originally Posted by BETTACHKALOVE View Post
Sorry i also think for 1 gall and 80* water should be change 100% every 4 days.
I don't know but i think the warmer the temperature the more chances bacteria and fungus to grow,specially if u don't change water on time.

Let us know know how he doing.
Actually it should be 100% every other day. Also, regularly adding salt is not recommended. You should only really use it to treat disease.

The bacteria stuff is useless, especially if there is no filter.

Ammonia should never be over .25pmm, in my opinion it is best to never even let it get that high.
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