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Old 07-12-2011, 10:34 PM   #1 
Punki
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Some advice please :)

Okay so 6days ago my female was dropping her eggs, id been conditioning my couple with mosquito larvae with no immediate plan to breed, just working up to it, when i saw her dropping i checked my male and his huge bubblenest and decided to give it a try, moved it all carefully and heavily planted with hide spots, then cupped her in. She immediately showed her head down wiggle dance to him so in 30 minutes i released her and she swam up to him, wiggled and he nipped her fin, she hid in plain sight and after he worked on his nest a few minutes he danced down to her, she followed and for the next two hours they spawned, wrapping about 8 times, but he ate all of the eggs, then started chasing her, since i wasnt mentally prepared for it i removed her to prevent any further damage. I was paranoid lol. Anyways she still was plump and after removing her he checked under his nest for eggs hen took a nap, i grabbed a few stray eggs he didnt notice nad tried artificially hatching but no luck. After that i kept her in aquarium salted clean water near his tank thinking shed release the rest of the eggs in her own tank but she didnt. Three days later i felt a bit more mentally ready for it, id bough everything id needed but mentally preparing to referee is the hard part for me cause i love these two. Anyways, night before last, after 3 days of daily water changes and tons more mosquito larvae i thought maybe since she was still plump and in sight of him that maybe itd be worth a shot. The first time was quick enough, 4 hours from putting her in to pulling her out and one nipped fin, no big deal. So i cup her in there, he dances and starts his nest. Two hours later the nest is the size of a baseball and when he swims up to dance she wiggles or flares and he gets excited and swims back to his nest trying t lure her in. If she doesnt react to his wiggle dance hed nip thew cup but usually she noticed. I still didnt release, i figured id wait till the following morning so the next morning i look and shes big and wiggly but just not QUITE as interested as the first time, so i wait till that evening and decide to release her. Still not as perceptive of him as when she was literally dropping eggs everywhere the first time but interested, and he was definitely interested, so i release. 10g heavily planted, full to the top, 80 degrees, bubblenest built ect. She goes straight to the nest and does the wiggle and push move that last time had him embracing but this time made him nip her. So again she swims down to the gravel, when shes got all these plants she swims to the gravel, he comes down and she does the submissive pose, clamps and wiggles and he flares and swims back up but she doesnt follow immediately and this seemed to infuriate him and he swims back down, flaring nd she tries to show a submissive pose again and he jolts towards her and nips at her HEAD. She then goes to hide in all the plants and i make a quick trip to check on her. a couple of missing scales above her eyes but otherwise fine so i agree that if he attacks like this again ill remove her because somethings not right. He works on his nest some more and she finally decides to get air so when she goes up he sees her and she BOLTS to the nest, looks at it then attacks it and runs off, well before he could even come up waggling himself. This hide and seek game went on the rest of the evening and had my nerves a wreck. At about 2am i decide to cup her and sleep because i could not sleep with her loose, no way. So i cup her and through the night she gets fatter and i wake to see him doing his dance to lure her in and her doing the head down pose so i release, she goes and hides where he cant reach her, only coming up for air then hiding. A couple of times hed get close and shed flare and hed run away back to his nest but shed never go check out his nest. Maybe she was too scared of him after that head bite? After about 6 hours of this today and her NEVER going to the nest or acknowledging his wiggles i remove her and see shes got a small nip on her side, and the very tip of a fin nipped. Overall shes in okay shape, loaded with eggs, vertical barred, but scared to death of him which makes me scared for her so shes out, back in a 1g bowl next to him in sq salt. Maybe i removed her when i should have left her, but her inability to hide correctly at first and get bit and then hiding all the time out of fear was too much. Im all prepared with the items needed, foods, ect but mentally i cant handle extreme damage, i was hoping 75% stuffed in plants would keep the damage at near 0 but that headbite..ugh, i dont think he wanted to kill her, just nip her, but she didnt move and thats just where he ended up nipping. Anyways, shes fine now, swimming, eating, and hes still looking at her through the glass and bubblenesting but what should i do? Ive read that its violent and there will be a few missing scales/fins, but ive also read missing scales (body bites) means one or the other isnt ready so im not positive what to go by. Im looking for advice/opinions/experience on where to go from here, should i try again before its too late? Is it too late since shes out even though shes still barred/eggy and in sight of him ect. Regardless, mosquito larvae is a daily food for them, Florida is overabundant with it so i feed it tons anyways but what would you do?
(this is a personal spawn, a 1y+ male vt and a 6-9m female CT, id like to have a few of their fry because who knows how long he will be around and id like to have a piece of him still, and also quite a few family members wanting one)
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:07 AM   #2 
mernincrazy8525
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well you should wait 2 weeks before you spawn a fish again that has just spawned because it is very tiring for them. sometimes the male will nip her if she doesnt cooperate with him. you should also lower the water level in the tank to like 14 inches and remove the gravel. if they do spawn it will be tiring for the male to go and retrieve the eggs and he may die. the eggs will go through the gravel cracks and never be found by the male and will die.
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:38 AM   #3 
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I agree, you should remove her, let her rest and heal for at least a week, if she has ripe eggs she may release them or reabsorb them, thats fine, dont worry about lost eggs she can be ready to respawn soon once she is healthy. It sounds to me that really you were the one messing it up, no offense but betta spawns can be pretty rough, you have to let it run its course and not interfere unless its serious and things just are not working out or you see definite signs that either fish is not ready. The first spawn may end up with the most damage and it gets better over time or some are just plain aggressive. I look for the females awareness of the male, is she hiding and not moving, panting and panic stricken or is she hiding but watching him, curious of her surroundings, looking like she wants to move around but still scared or unsure. There are some things in betta spawning that will be different every time but others you can start to recognize patterns. To me it sounded like the damage really wasn't that bad, I often have females missing scales, torn fins or missing chunks of tail, as long as she is still responding to him in some way, I leave them together.
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:06 PM   #4 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mernincrazy8525 View Post
well you should wait 2 weeks before you spawn a fish again that has just spawned because it is very tiring for them. sometimes the male will nip her if she doesnt cooperate with him. you should also lower the water level in the tank to like 14 inches and remove the gravel. if they do spawn it will be tiring for the male to go and retrieve the eggs and he may die. the eggs will go through the gravel cracks and never be found by the male and will die.
I was unsure on the time needed because ive read one week If your LOADING them with live foods 3 times a day, and then ive heard 2 weeks with froze live foods, i was just going by their signals to each other. The 10 gallon full is only about 12 inches deep as it is, should i still lower it? I had left gravel on 75% of the tank but barebottomed around his nesting corner but if not a problem for spawning it could still be a problem when he goes down to pick up wiggling babies if they dont fall straight down so i may remove more. I just liked having it as an anchor for all of the plants. Thanks for the advice :)

Quote:
I agree, you should remove her, let her rest and heal for at least a week, if she has ripe eggs she may release them or reabsorb them, thats fine, dont worry about lost eggs she can be ready to respawn soon once she is healthy. It sounds to me that really you were the one messing it up, no offense but betta spawns can be pretty rough, you have to let it run its course and not interfere unless its serious and things just are not working out or you see definite signs that either fish is not ready. The first spawn may end up with the most damage and it gets better over time or some are just plain aggressive. I look for the females awareness of the male, is she hiding and not moving, panting and panic stricken or is she hiding but watching him, curious of her surroundings, looking like she wants to move around but still scared or unsure. There are some things in betta spawning that will be different every time but others you can start to recognize patterns. To me it sounded like the damage really wasn't that bad, I often have females missing scales, torn fins or missing chunks of tail, as long as she is still responding to him in some way, I leave them together.
No offense taken. Its pretty obvious im overly worried, even though i know the chasing and nipping is normal and should expect some damage, once it starts happening i feel panicked. When she hid, she hid in a way that she would still watch him, but he couldnt see her/get to her, but when he came near shed flare out and swim towards his flaring face and hed go crazy dancing back to his nest, if he didnt approach though, shed just come up for air, or swim in the back of the tank behind the plants where he didnt always notice her. This was after the head nip that happened early on, before that she was dancing at his nest. So i probably should have left her to get over her fear of going back to the nest since she was still watching/swimming around her hiding spots. Thanks for the advice.

Since i didnt recieve any comments last night initially i went ahead and removed her as you both suggest anyways, put her in some aquarium salt and tannins in a 2 gallon, fed her, and let her rest. Today her nipped spots on her body are already starting to heal and one of the two small tail nips has white regrowth. Once the other nip shows some white regrowth ill remove the salt and just keep with daily water changes and high protein live food feedings and see where im at in a week at the earliest. Ill spoil her for now. Hes unharmed, never got a nip at all, still bubblenesting and playing as usual but i still added an additional waterchange a week for him to keep him in good shape since the act itself could have tired him. We'll see where im at in a week and go from there. I really need to accept that things WILL happen. When researching i knew this but i also did my best to give her SO many hiding spots to hopefully decrease on damage as much as possible. Ive also realized that wen i did see a good solid nip at her id panic and it looked much worse in my worried state then it actually was. Other then a small nip on her fin, looking at her today, theres hardly any sign that she was with him at all, but at the time it was "OMG HEAD BITE IS SHE GOING TO HAVE BRAIN DAMAGE *STARE*" I did this discreetly but still, a bit too worried :)) Anyways thank you for the advice, ill give her some rest and tlc and see where im at in a week. If she drops/re-absorbs her eggs in the next week ill wait an additional week for sure, and ill tweek the gravel issue in the meantime. Also go buy a chimney, i think ill better read her signals in a chimney then in a floating cup, i may have to lower the water some for the chimney anyways.

Last edited by Punki; 07-13-2011 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:31 PM   #5 
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Ive spent so much time reasearching and i know what to expect, and the behaviors to go by but for some reason when its in action i panic and worry over the little things too much. I need to get a grip on this because it could do more harm then good. My goal is to have a calm as possible spawn, but removing her too soon, or interfering by looking too often could distract the process and put all of the research to waste. Thanks for the sound advice.
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:43 PM   #6 
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If you're that worried, next time you could lower the water level so that the female can hide/rest both at the bottom and at the surface without being seen. So instead of the male coming to her and trying to lure her, she would have to decide when to approach the male. This may take much longer, but it will keep your mind at ease.

You can also try releasing her at night - without extra lighting. They won't be active, but they can sense each other. Since this is her second spawn, she should spawn by the following day.

Just keep them out of each other's sight until you're ready to breed them. Then introduce them (female in a jar) and release her the following evening.
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:45 PM   #7 
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its okay. i do the same thing. i panic. we all do it! just feed them for another week while in their own tanks without showing them any other betta. let the female heal her wounds. then let the male in the tank and do exactly what you did the first time.
just try to interrupt them as little as possible. put a towel over the spawning tank. unless they are killing each other don't remove them. change up the aqua scape so the male won't immediatly realize that it is his territory. just some tips. they have worked for me.
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:25 PM   #8 
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Indjo lowering for that purpose sounds like a plan, thats usually when shes exposed, and sometimes shed wait a long time to come up. 3/4 full should leave plenty of cover all the way up and also still be low enough for a chimney/ease his work.
Yep, ill pamper them a week or more, need a few completely free days to do it again anyways.
About lighting, i usually leave their tank light off, i figured itd help her feel covered and comfy, i planned to turn it on after spawning was finished, just leaving the room light on. Its so hard not to constantly watch, im scared that if i go pee ill come back to a dead fish even if shes ghiding and hes bubbling lol, im just so paranoid XD Ill try really hard to stay back! :)
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:37 PM   #9 
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chain yourself to a pole if you have too.
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Old 07-13-2011, 04:22 PM   #10 
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LOL :)) That should be added to my supply list from now on
-plants-fry foods-chain :))
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