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Old 07-21-2011, 10:59 PM   #11 
Super Fish
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Thank you indjo, that was a very well written post.
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:15 PM   #12 
indjo
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You're welcome.

I'm glad you understood the post. I was afraid of over doing it and make it confusing.....
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:17 PM   #13 
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I agree that inbreeding in animals is bad, but for betta fish it is fine for about 4 generations, then you introduce new genes.
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:18 PM   #14 
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You say that it has been confirmed that inbreeding for 6 generations is "safe". Is this just through experience or have studies been done on this? I would love to read more on how fish differ from mammals in regards to inbreeding.
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Old 07-22-2011, 10:31 AM   #15 
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I doubt you will find anything but experience anywhere on this subject - the world simply doesn't care enough about bettas to do any actual studies.

What you have to keep in mind is that bettas are not mammals, therefore the same rules do not necessarily apply.
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Old 07-22-2011, 10:44 AM   #16 
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Correct, fish don't have to worry about mental issues like and extra chromosome, or some kind of other issue that us mammals do have to worry about. Bettas don't get Down Syndrome, but in the long term it can prove to be an issue.
Like Injo said, they aren't bred with each other forever- and most breeders bring in new traits by the 4th or 5th generation.

Edit: I realize that DS isn't caused by inbreeding, but it was just an example...
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Old 07-24-2011, 01:54 AM   #17 
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http://www.bettatalk.com/selecting_stock.htm
Quote:
Hum. (sorry) :P I couldn't help but laughing my head off. OK you guys, let me set the records straight here once and for all. Breeding brother to sister is not only OK, but it is also desirable and most often absolutely necessary to get any kind of decent results. You can cross brother to sisters up to 6 generations without ill effect. Remember, they are fish, not people!!! :). Anytime you outcross two different strains, you will usually suffer a major set back both in finnage and color purity and often lose the traits of the parents in the process. Although outcrossing is necessary now and then, you should only do it when absolutely necessary and otherwise it should be avoided, unless the breeder is trying to 'inject' additional traits into his/her line. In short, do purchase brother/sister pairs if at all possible.
I think I read it in 3 different writings. But I can only find this one.

I don't think there has been any scientific research on this topic. It's just sort of comparisons between breeders. I hold this (6 generation) opinion because a local breeder who inbreeds once said something similar; +/- "Don't go beyond 6 because it will destroy your line".
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Old 07-24-2011, 05:53 PM   #18 
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That is my understanding as well Indjo......and I think there are some scientific studies on this as well....a lot is also from pro breeders in this hobby and a great deal of this information can be found in the IBC archives/records...but you have to be a paying member to get access, however, lots of this information can still be found on the internet too...you just have to look for it....try google...scientific research Betta splendens
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Old 07-24-2011, 07:45 PM   #19 
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Hmm, just breeder experience doesn't do it for me, personally. Just because the fish has a pretty colour and nice fins doesn't mean it isn't being screwed up in some other way. But, perhaps you are right and I am looking at this from a mammalian stand point rather then a fish stand point.

Nor do I really trust random internet sites... I've been taught to only fully trust peer reviewed articles. I have access to a lot of scientific databases there, so I will start looking there.

Thanks everyone, it has been very interesting seeing the reasoning given. You've all been very helpful!
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Old 07-24-2011, 08:55 PM   #20 
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@Super Fish; could you please share with us what you find. I don't have access to many scientific articles I wish I could read.... Specially on genetics in general.
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