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Old 07-24-2011, 09:10 PM   #21 
1fish2fish
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While there may not be betta specific studies done on inbreeding I'm sure there are articles about the inbreeding of other species of fish.

As it is... I have yet to see studies saying that inbreeding is NOT okay in fish (as long as you outcross every 4-6 generations).

Oh.. and that whole "genetic diversity strengthens the animal" is only one half of the pie. A whole bunch of mixed genetics are nothing if they're bad genes.. you must have good genetics AND diversity and good genetics come from a selective breeding program that seeks out the good genes and tries to get rid of the bad oens.
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Old 07-25-2011, 09:16 PM   #22 
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I don't have much experience with biology, except taking high school Biology in 9th grade, but here's what I've gathered while researching breeding in bettas, mice, and dogs, as well as stumbling across some horror stories about inbreeding while surfing the net:

*Fish and most reptiles are pretty forgiving when it comes to inbreeding. I'm almost positive this is because their bodies and brains aren't as complex as mammals, so there's less things that could go wrong. Also, bettas are very hardy fish to start with, so the weaker traits that sometimes come with inbreeding aren't going to affect them as much. It is also more difficult to isolate desirable traits, so for the hard-core breeder, interbreeding is usually necessary.

*Rodents shouldn't be inbred, but it is possible to get sound offspring if there is some interbreeding. However, it is not something you want to risk.

*'Lower' mammals, such as dogs, cats, etc. should never be interbred. The risk of deformity is very high, and although it is possible to get an alright animal every now and then, the vast majority of offspring will be sickly, short-lived, etc.

*'Higher' mammals, such as humans and primates, will always have severely deformed and sickly offspring when interbred. Always.

Basically, the more complex the animal, the worse inbreeding will affect it.
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Old 07-27-2011, 10:04 AM   #23 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeflow246 View Post
*'Higher' mammals, such as humans and primates, will always have severely deformed and sickly offspring when interbred. Always.
I'm going to cite European royal families against this statement. Yes, there were problems such as hemophilia in later generations after carrier females (in F2 or F3) were eventually mated back to males with the disease. But, not all of them are deformed, and certainly not in the F1 generation. Deformities present themselves outside of inbreeding all of the time as well.

Link 1

Link 2

I could name more, but I don't think I need to. =/
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Old 07-27-2011, 10:21 AM   #24 
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I wouldn't do it. Because in the human world if you do that the kid might have a difficulty. But now I see why...I just wouldn't do that to my fishies...
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Old 07-27-2011, 10:54 AM   #25 
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I'm not suggesting that you do it.
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Old 07-27-2011, 11:57 AM   #26 
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Originally Posted by GienahClarette View Post
I'm going to cite European royal families against this statement. Yes, there were problems such as hemophilia in later generations after carrier females (in F2 or F3) were eventually mated back to males with the disease. But, not all of them are deformed, and certainly not in the F1 generation. Deformities present themselves outside of inbreeding all of the time as well.

Link 1

Link 2

I could name more, but I don't think I need to. =/
True enough. :P I was thinking mostly about brother/sister pairs, since that's how bettas are usually inbred.
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Old 07-27-2011, 02:31 PM   #27 
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I have been spawning siblings, mother-son, father-daughter....etc.....and have not seen any abnormal amount of deformities or other genetic related issues with those crosses than spawning non-related fish...its not uncommon to get some genetic related problems that require culling from any spawn regardless of relation IME.......


Here are a few links.....

http://www.theokaa.org/articles/inbreeding.pdf
http://www.bluebettausa.com/genetics.htm
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/anthropomorphizing

"Anthropomorphizing

Attribution of human motivation, characteristics, or behavior to inanimate objects, animals, or natural phenomena."
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Old 07-27-2011, 02:38 PM   #28 
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Concern about inbreeding has nothing to do with antormorphizing. I'm not saying "Oh, Pookums wouldn't want to breed to his sister, that's icky!" Rather, I'm saying "perhaps Pookums should not be bred to his sister because it's commonly accepted that inbreeding, at least in mammals, creates a plethora of issues."
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Old 07-27-2011, 02:41 PM   #29 
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"plethora" I love that word.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:09 PM   #30 
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And we've already established that in less evolved animals, namely fish, it is a non-issue as long as proper records are kept and out-crosses are made.

I believe the reason OFL brought up anthropomorphizing is that it seems to be the prevailing opinion of these members who seem to have little to no knowledge of fish breeding or genetics that since you shouldn't do it in humans that you shouldn't do it in fish and that's simply not the case.
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