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Old 07-27-2011, 05:38 PM   #1 
Hisaki Yuki001
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My Mr. Moto relapsed today

As some of you may know, Mr. Moto was one of my rescues a few months ago. After a long period, about 3 months of trying to get his health back, he finally healed up really well. Well today he relapsed.

I just woke up to find that he was once again floating at the top of his tank. He has obviously pooped and it was once again white and floating on the surface. This makes me believe that no doubt he does have some air bubbles in his digestive tract. What scares me more is the fact that his belly is all swollen and white due to stretching.

I took him out of the divided tank in which I keep the water in pristine condition, added fresh water, salt, and dosed him with a few drops of Betta revive. I hope this helps as he has had a history of illness since I got him. If he doesn't survive in the next few days, I will miss him, but I'd rather him not continue to suffer.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:14 PM   #2 
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I haven't read the original thread about your betta's problems, but have you tried de-worming Mr Moto? White, stringy poo and a bloated stomach make me think internal parasites.

I had similar issues with one of my bettas in that he presented with severe bloating (his scales were pineconing) and stringy poo. I dosed his hospital tank with a levamisole based wormer (mine was for birds but is also aquarium safe) and a low level of epsom salt.

I saw an improvement in 48 hours, and it's been nearly a month since then and he hasn't had a relapse.

Apologies if you've tried de-worming him, but I know there are certain parasites that require certain chemicals to kill them, so maybe you missed them first time around?
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Old 07-27-2011, 09:04 PM   #3 
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I'm not familiar with your betta's prior issues but it sounds like bloating due to either overfeeding and/or internal parasites... How much do you feed him and what brand do you use? Can you fill out the form at the top of the disease section?

For now, do as LittleBettaFish said and dose him with 2tsp/gal Epsom Salt. You should also consider deworming him with API General Cure or Jungle's Anti-Parasite pellets. You can also soak his pellets in garlic juice since garlic has many anti-parasitic benefits.
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Old 07-27-2011, 10:57 PM   #4 
Hisaki Yuki001
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Originally Posted by DarkMoon17 View Post
I'm not familiar with your betta's prior issues but it sounds like bloating due to either overfeeding and/or internal parasites... How much do you feed him and what brand do you use? Can you fill out the form at the top of the disease section?

For now, do as LittleBettaFish said and dose him with 2tsp/gal Epsom Salt. You should also consider deworming him with API General Cure or Jungle's Anti-Parasite pellets. You can also soak his pellets in garlic juice since garlic has many anti-parasitic benefits.
Sorry, I had forgot to provide that list, and no I haven't tried de-worming him. I thought about it a few months ago when he had a bad bacterial infection that went internal and almost killed him. Ever since then he has had problems with bloating when ever I feed him one pellet once every few days, but i didn't treat him for Parasites afterwords due to his poop turning back to a healthy color. I do agree that I should treat for parasites to make sure, as it seems he always balloons up every now and then after more than one pellet. When he was healing, as I feed him like this, he did put on weight, and after a while his pooped had turned to normal color as he healed up. When I first got him his poop was a black color that adventually turned white and then normal. I had a problem with him eating his own poop at that time as well.

Housing
What size is your tank?
He's never been in anything smaller than a 2.5 gallon.
What temperature is your tank?
Between 78-80F
Does your tank have a filter?
Yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
Yes
Is your tank heated?
Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with?

He's in QT now, but I set up a devided 10 gallon about a month ago. He lives with three other Betta, which are all healthy and happy. THey all have an indivedual filter, two are min-nano filters, the other two are Tetra 3i filters that add aeration to the tank without stressing them with the water surface disturbance you'd have with an air stone.

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?

Hikari Betta Pellets. The only Betta I have thats on crushed betta pellets and flakes is my very young Itty Bitty.
How often do you feed your betta fish?
Mr.Moto get's feed once a day to once every 2-3 days as he's always had problems with eating more than that. If he eats more he seems to have problems with his swim Bladder and his belly with sometimes bloat up.

Maintenance

How often do you perform a water change?

1-2 times a week unless I notice a problem with their health or tank being maintained, filter Medea breaking down or overly dirty, or if the water looks like it's not being filtered properly.
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
25% -50% once to twice a week on my divided 10 gallon due to the filters all being for a 2.5 gallon each. I do a 25% - 50% water change on my 2.5 gallon and 3 gallon tanks as well about one to two times a week.
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?
I add Aqua-safe Declorinator, Jungle Start Zyme when rinsing out filter media or changing filter media to help with filtration. I also add 1/4 teaspoon of un-iodized sea salt pre-dissolved for every 2.5 gallons as a preventative one to two times a month. None of my other Betta have had any problems with fin rot or disease since I started doing this.

Note: Last night I did notice that the two medea bags I had made to hold my carbon for the mini-nano filters had completely mildewed and disintegrated in the filter. I amediately turned them off, rinsed them out, and replaced the media with my store bought media bags. I also added some salt and a 25% water change just in case. This makes me think that it might be due to those two bags disintegrating, especially if his immune system is compromised due to his history. I'm never doing that again.


Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?


I know it's bad, but I don't test the water. I've never learned how, but I plan on doing so when I have more money. I usually due my best to keep the water conditions the best kept as possible though, just like you would if you didn't have any filter for your tank. I know it isn't a good subsitute for not testing though.

Ammonia: ?
Nitrite: n/a
Nitrate: n/a
pH: n/a
Hardness: n/a
Alkalinity: n/a


Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
I noticed last night that he seemed to be dulling in color a little bit, but wasn't showing any stress stripes. He's a CT with usually a red body with more black coloring on his head and a bit of purple on his fins and a purple shean to the side of him when the light shines just right on him. His color now seems to have dulled to a more of a dark brown instead of red, but his coloring looks fine if you shine the light on him from his side. His belly as of today has swollen to the piont that it is white in color where it looks like it stretched too much to fast. He is also laying on his side more than ussaul.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
He's always had signs of SBD and problems with constipation since he was sick, so he's always had quite a bit of problems with floating back up to the top of his water when swimming down. He ussauly hangs out by the surface since he was sick in the past, but he's now stuck on his side from the belly, and not moving around as much.
When did you start noticing the symptoms?
Yesterday as far as the coloring goes and a little bit less motivated to more. Today, he's presenting with the belly distention, white poop, and white coloring to his stomach and laying on his side. Still wants food but I don't want to feed him yet.
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
Yes.... I pulled him out of his tank and put him in QT. I set up his QT with fresh treated tape water using Aqua-safe, refrained from feeding, and added 1/8th teaspoon of dissolved un-iodized sea salt and a few drops of Bettafix.

I plan on doing a 50%-75% water change once a day while doing treatment to see if he improves. I 'll have to wait until Friday to get meds for treatment of Parasites. If he lasts, I'll switch treatment to an anti-parasite medication from the Bettafix.
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
Yes, he was a rescue a few months ago from Meijer. When I got him he was so sick that his poop was black and so starved that he kept trying to eat his own poop. He had had a bacterial infection on his head and the infection slowly grew to almost completely cover his head while treating him with salt, meds and clean water. He almost died from it, and once I brought him back from the brink, he presented with signs of SBD and it took three months for the abrasion to heal on his head. Whatever he had had made my other Betta, that had had no history of being ill aside from fin rot once, sick when they were a divided tank. This illness killed my other guy within three days, even with starting treatment right away.
How old is your fish (approximately)?
I would say he's probably about a year old.

Note: Since treating him today, the swelling seems to have gone down a bit. he's still laying on his side though and just resting.

Last edited by Hisaki Yuki001; 07-27-2011 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 07-27-2011, 11:09 PM   #5 
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If you do worm him, keep him in a separate bare-bottom hospital tank. Some dewormers only stun the worm and not kill it so if he picks it up off the ground thinking it's food he can re-infest himself.

I would try de-worming and epsom salt first. Hopefully it is something easily remedied. Keep us posted on how he goes.
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Old 07-27-2011, 11:20 PM   #6 
Hisaki Yuki001
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If you do worm him, keep him in a separate bare-bottom hospital tank. Some dewormers only stun the worm and not kill it so if he picks it up off the ground thinking it's food he can re-infest himself.

I would try de-worming and epsom salt first. Hopefully it is something easily remedied. Keep us posted on how he goes.
Ok... Thankyou. I have him in a QT right now that has a plastic grate on on the bottom that I think should help, since he's always tried to eat his poop if there isn't any substrate. Should that work?
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:58 AM   #7 
Hisaki Yuki001
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Woops...I said I was treating with Betta fix. I'm sorry, I mis-wrote the meds name. I'm actually using Betta Revive and NOT Betta Fix.
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Old 07-28-2011, 10:28 AM   #8 
DarkMoon17
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It sounds like possible tapeworms or roundworms. I don't suggest using betta revive, it doesn't actually have anything beneficial in it. Treat him with 2tsp/gal Epsom Salt (not Aquarium Salt, it is sold in the pharmacy section of Walmart) and API General Cure. If you can, start treatment as soon as possible.

His SBD issues may be due to his food or internal parasites or both... You should consider changing his food to something that contains real fish products as the first few ingredients instead of grain products. Hikari has been known to cause SBD now that they have changed their ingredients. New Life Spectrum's betta pellets would be a good alternative. Additionally, he would really benefit from some frozen and/or live food since he is having so much trouble.

Good luck and keep us posted!
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Old 07-28-2011, 04:09 PM   #9 
Hisaki Yuki001
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Originally Posted by DarkMoon17 View Post
It sounds like possible tapeworms or roundworms. I don't suggest using betta revive, it doesn't actually have anything beneficial in it. Treat him with 2tsp/gal Epsom Salt (not Aquarium Salt, it is sold in the pharmacy section of Walmart) and API General Cure. If you can, start treatment as soon as possible.

His SBD issues may be due to his food or internal parasites or both... You should consider changing his food to something that contains real fish products as the first few ingredients instead of grain products. Hikari has been known to cause SBD now that they have changed their ingredients. New Life Spectrum's betta pellets would be a good alternative. Additionally, he would really benefit from some frozen and/or live food since he is having so much trouble.

Good luck and keep us posted!
Thankyou... I'm going to get some jungle parasite meds tomorrow to deworm him. I'll also look into getting epsom salt and look around to see if I can find New Life Spectrum Pellets. I had no idea the Hikari had been known to cause SBD, or I never would have bought them. Thank you for the tip.

Another thing I did was I did a 100% water change on my 10 gallon last night and added a bit of sea salt even though I don't have Epson salt yet just as a preventative. I thoroughly rinsed all the gravel and reset it up. Even though I'm hoping that it's only parasites, if after treatment he still presents with SBD symptoms, he'll be in his own tank from now on.

Even thought he's not on parasite meds or Epsom salt, I've noticed that he's a lot more active today and the swelling went down like hell yesterday.
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Old 07-28-2011, 10:15 PM   #10 
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Jungle's Fizz tabs are a good choice, they aren't harsh on the fish at all. If he still has SBD trouble after treatment then it is most likely due to diet. Hikari used to be a respectable brand, it's just no good now. I'm glad he's feeling a bit better already. You can try not treating him for a day or two to see if he'll recover all on his own.
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