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Old 08-13-2011, 03:17 PM   #31 
SVC
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Your nitrates in your tank water are 0? Are you sure it's cycled? If it isn't then it's not really a problem to reset your tank XD That's the thing, I'm not sure it is cycled, or whether it was and now it's not anymore. I know I should have some nitrates by the 2 month mark but it is a definite 0, no doubt.

I'm more inclined to believe your API kit over the strips, although both my API kit and strips are generally accurate and similar to each other... Yes, what I've heard too which is why I opted for this kit. I don't know what brand my LFS is using, but his results are always higher than mine, except pH which comes out lower. Hmm...

Keep doing regular, small water changes, it seems like there may have been something interfering with the pH inside your tank. Also I would not recommend putting salt into an established tank, bacteria are petty. What is the chemical composition of the salt you're using? Is it just NaCl? Oh, good to know. When my fish first showed signs of fin rot, it was suggested to put some API aquarium salt in there, which is what I did. I would say there is about 2 tsp in my 10 gallon so not a lot considering how much you can put in a tank that size. Right now, I am using the prepared salt water from my 1 gallon container treated with prime for my betta's QT. Seemed to have helped as he looks much better today in terms of having his fins unclamped and having gone #2!

...Actually, what is the pH in the QT tank? Just one test should be fine. Low Range pH is 7.6 so I did a high range one too which showed a definite 7.8. I also tested the other parameters too just to see what was going on with the fish in an unfiltered environment... Ammonia came out at 0.25 and Nitrites/ates were both 0 again. Does that sound right since there is some fish waste in there. Although it hasn't been 24 hours since I last changed his water, I guess with those readings, I should get it done sooner than later.

I'm still convinced it is *something* in your tank xD Me too - sigh... Do you think triple sulfa can do it? I have had the carbon back in for a while since the last time it was in there but I also have these weird white flakes all over. I am wondering if the triple sulfa didn't completely dissolve and is resting in the gravel and causing a change in the water chemistry
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Old 08-13-2011, 03:23 PM   #32 
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Originally Posted by Sakura8 View Post
Just popping in to say this: I read that Amquel drops pH.

It's on a betta breeding site
http://www.flippersandfins.net/Betta...e.htm#choosing

Here's the quote:

Tap water conditioner: Kordon's Amquel® and NovAqua® are recommended to remove toxic chloramines, chlorine, ammonia and heavy metals from your tap water. However, before using AmQuel®, be sure that your KH (carbonate hardness) is 4 or higher so that you will not experience a rapid decrease in pH. If your KH is less than 4, use Prime™. Your local fish store will usually test your water for KH for free.

Don't know if this helps you and Bahamut figuring things out but I thought I'd mention it.

*pops back out*
Very Intersting Sakura, thanks so much for that! It makes a lot of sense because I had been using Kordon up until a few days ago and the last while I was dosing more than the recommended (per my LFS) to deal with the ammonia. Maybe all that stuff going in there was causing my pH to crash like that - all the more reason to find out what my KH levels are today when I go back there. I will report back what I uncover. That might also explain why my main tank is more stable this past day or two since I switched to prime! Hmmmmm....

Thanks for popping in -

Last edited by SVC; 08-13-2011 at 03:25 PM. Reason: forgot something
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Old 08-13-2011, 08:01 PM   #33 
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My first guess was the medications as well. I'm not entirely sure that activated carbon "GETS RID OF" medication but rather makes it less effective. I remember I had to do a 100% water change in one of my tanks after treating the whole thing with Malachite Green.

Considering the QT has the same pH as your test bucket and tap, this is the only conclusion I can think of.

Since it is no longer cycled or never cycled, you're not really losing much from resetting the tank. The medicines may have killed your bacteria, too. It will also give you a chance to completely remove the salt you put in there before.
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Old 08-13-2011, 11:35 PM   #34 
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Hey there Sakura, hope you're well this morning.

Thanks for the recipe for the epsom salt, hopefully I won't need to do it. I came down today to find a large-ish poop! The good thing is that there was a large piece of brown poop surrounded by some of that lighter stuff although this time it wasn't as fuzzy. Maybe it was the pea? In your experience, when you've given a pea, has it come out solid and green looking or kind of fluffy and lighter colour? Anyway, hopefully his #2 will get back to normal. I'll show the picture to my pet store guy today and see if he recommends the medicated food. I might get some to have on hand as it looks like fish get all these kinds of things pretty often. At least he looks a bit happier today. His fins are more open too. Should I feed him today, or give him a break?

Btw, yesterday at the pet store my lfs guy suggested putting some danios in the tank to keep the biological production up. Only worry I have is that if there is something pathogenic in the tank, they'll get sick and I'll have to treat the tank again meaning more meds. On the other hand, I don't want to go into another cycle again either b/c of having no one living in the tank.

Ok, got to go and do my last water test for bahamut. Will post the results in a bit!
Hi, sorry for the late reply on this. I'm glad to hear he's, uh, producing something. It could be the pea that made it look funny. We'll see what another other poos look like. If he's not bloated, you can probably feed him. I don't think it will hurt him.

I'm not sure I'd recommend danios with a male betta. I had some danios in my community tank and I put my female in there and she was stressed out because the danios were so bloody hyper. They were bouncing off the walls, practically. They're great for cycling because they're really hardy but they're very, very active fish and really are pretty nippy with long-finned fish like bettas. You might ask your LFS guy if you can have a couple handfuls of gravel from one of their tanks - that will help cycle the tank faster. You would put it in some nylon and just place it near the filter somewhere.

Another option is to get a smaller tank for PTG and ask your LFS if you can "rent" a goldfish for the 10g. Goldfish produce lots of ammonia really fast, you could probably get the tank cycled in 4 weeks with one small goldfish in there. But it all depends on your LFS. Do you plan on getting tankmates for PTG in the future? If so, maybe they'll loan you a goldfish if you promise to get the tankmates at their store.
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:37 AM   #35 
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No worries Sakura, I think everyone here is awesome and replies very quickly which is comforting especially in the middle of a crisis!

Yes, I was relieved to see he had passed some stuff. There was a bit more even later on when I went to do his water change, and that stuff you could tell was the pea but it wasn't so solid, it was very light and kind of cotton candyish in nature. Sorry, I know I probably just ruined cotton candy for you forever. At least there was some solid brown stuff as well. Over all, he is carrying himself better now. At least he doesn't have his fins clamped anymore. Anyway, he was looking at me so pitifully, I gave him a little morsel of daphnia which is also supposed to be good for constipation so hopefully that will kill two birds with one stone.

So I had the same worry about the danios. I asked specifically if they were aggressive because I was having a lot of problems with the tetras biting the betta's fins and he said that they would get along great with the tetras and leave the betta alone. I'm not so sure. I didn't have a chance to go there Saturday, so hopefully I will go in tomorrow (well today now). When I go in, I will observe them in their tank and see how rowdy they are. The last thing I want is more tankmates that don't get along.

I did consider a smaller tank just for PTG, but my LFS guy talked me out of it. He said the tetras were picking on him because he was sick. Then again, he's the type that does unconventional things so I'm not surprised. I know some people say bettas are solitary fish, but I think it would be nice for them to have some company, as long as it's not stressful company. :D

That's a good idea about asking for gravel from the LFS. Do you think their gravel is safe though? I'm afraid there might be lots of bugs floating around with all the fish that go in and out and some of their tanks are not in the best shape hygiene wise. My location is pretty good though, they usually are in there cleaning and stuff when I go in. I'll ask him what he thinks. He's always straight with me and is not after selling me stuff so I trust him. I was all ready to go in and buy a new set up for PTG when the tetras started nipping his fins and he told me to wait it out and not spend the money for nothing. I am sure his boss wouldn't have been too pleased though. ha! I'll have a word with him tom. about the cycling stuff and best thing to do. Thanks for all your suggestions!

Well, it's twenty to three here so I guess I better sleep. The kids will be up in a few hours. Ugh! G'night. :)
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Old 08-14-2011, 10:36 AM   #36 
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Bwahaha, one of the things you'll find about this forum is it keeps you up at night.

Daphnia is great for constipation, even better than pea. It sounds like his system is slowly getting itself back on track which is great news. Feed him lightly, a pellet here, a bit of daphnia there, until we're sure his system can handle a lot of food. As always, watch for anything unusual in the poos, like white wormy things. If he ever gets bloated or he starts to look really thin, he might need some meds but for now, it's definitely watch and wait.

A lot of people on here have had trouble with tetras nipping at betta fins so I don't think it's just because PTG was sick. They may have nipped a little more than usual but I think they would have been after him no matter what. And danios are bigger so they can take a nice chunk out if they want. I've heard rasboras are very good, peaceful tankmates. Probably the best tankmates for bettas are cory cats because they are mostly bottom dwellers and ignore everyone who ignores them.

I'm sure PTG would be happy with tankmates, as long as they don't bug him. The only reason I'd get a smaller tank is for temporary housing while the 10g cycled. So it wouldn't need to be fancy, just something you can heat. That way, if the gravel from the store tanks is a little unhealthy, it won't affect PTG. Most bugs and stuff would die because they wouldn't have anything to feed on (ie, ich parasites and things like that).
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Old 08-14-2011, 11:23 AM   #37 
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Exclamation Houston, we have a problem...

Good Morning! I hate to start my morning (and yours) off with a complaint, but just when I thought things were getting better, we have another problem!

This morning, I figured I would give PTG a couple of those little NLS pellets and he was happily waiting there fins wide open and beautiful and when I put the pellets in, I noticed he couldn't swim to get them! He was trying his darndest to dive down after the sinking ones and was really fighting to do so. So it looks like we are having buoyancy problems now. UGH! When will it end? It looks like the belly is swollen too, but the poor thing is trying so hard to get to the bottom and I'm afraid he's going to stress himself out! If I remember correctly, epsom salts are used for bloat too? Would it be the same recipe as for constipation?

Needless to say I am feeling a bit like this ------->
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Old 08-14-2011, 11:32 AM   #38 
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Oh dear, not good. Yes, epsom salts. For swim bladder problems, I would actually up the dosage to 3 tsps per gallon. Poor PTG. This happened to my HM a while ago, it was pitiful to watch. He would try so hard and then get tired and float back up until he hit the top of the water like it was a ceiling. But the epsom salts did help and my HM is doing fine so I have lots of hope for PTG.

If it looks like he's getting stressed, lower the water level to about 2-3 inches so he can swim easier. Now, can he swim at all? You said he couldn't swim to get them but was that just the sinking ones or was he unable to really move from one spot?

Be prepared, we may need to medicate if he has a bacterial infection.
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Old 08-14-2011, 11:43 AM   #39 
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Thanks for responding so quickly! PTG is able to swim. It's just when he tries to get to the bottom that he really struggles and twists himself back and forth to make it happen. A couple of times I guess he got tired and flipped on his side but when I looked in at him, he was able to right himself and can swim along the top. On closer examination, his belly is very big :(

Don't know what could have caused this? I gave him daphnia yesterday and he had pooped this morning although not huge. What could have caused it so rapidly? He was fine until about 2:30am last night and was actually flaring a lot for some reason. Maybe he got too much air in his gills while flaring? Also to change his water, I am trying to gently pour him into another glass and then pour him back into his QTank so as to avoid netting him. Do you think that method of change has caused this?

Just remembered: Last night when he was flaring, a couple of times only one gill would flare but then both would flare. I didn't think anything of it, and his one side is more bloated than the other. Thought it's worth a mention.

If none of the above are true, then I suppose it could be bacaterial! Oh, I have just read somewhere that making them flare might make them poop and also to up the water slowly to about 85 degrees would help the swim bladder. Any validity to these things?

Last edited by SVC; 08-14-2011 at 11:49 AM. Reason: added something
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Old 08-14-2011, 12:10 PM   #40 
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At this point, I'm thinking he has a bacterial infection since his belly is so big. These infections can be brewing for a long time but we usually don't know about them until the more physical signs appear like swim bladder problems and bloating. Flaring and the way you've been doing his water changes shouldn't have affected him like this so it all points to something requiring medication.

Judging from what you're telling me, the infection is more on one side of his body since one side is larger. The bloating is probably being caused by a buildup of fluids in his kidneys and organs. Since he's eating, one great way of treating the infection is to use medicated food. I would suggest Seachem Kanaplex but I'm not sure how readily available it is. If you think you might be able to find it, great. If not, look for Jungle Labs Anti-Parasite Medicated Pellets. The medication in those pellets is also very effective for internal bacterial infections. Also pick up some Maracyn-II if you can find that. Continue with the epsom salts at 3 tsps but also treat with the Maracyn-II. If you can find the pellets, they'll probably need to be crushed up into smaller pieces for him.

Flaring does help them poop because they get all excited and move around a lot but if he didn't poop much when he flared last night, I'm not sure if it will help now. Definitely slowly raise the water to maybe 82 degrees to start with, warmth is good.

I've got my fingers crossed for the little guy. Hang in there, both of yiu.
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