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Old 08-18-2011, 02:08 PM   #21 
SnowySurface
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A lot of people are missing the larger point. There are some members who are cut-throat when it comes to tank size. I'm sure everyone here will agree that the 0.5gal betta 'tanks' are too small for any fish. But then there are the members who act like anything smaller than 10gal is torture. Bigger is not always better since bigger tanks need more powerful filters. More powerful filters lead to fin damage, stress, and the killing the fish. I'm pretty sure we've all seen fish who were killed by a petstore one-sizes-'fits'-all filter.

Therefore, 2.5-5gal is a good size in my opinion. The filters for 2.5-5gal tanks are gentle so the fish’s fins should stay healthy and not the rest of the fish should remain healthy as well. I personally had my current fish in 1gal tanks for about 2 years because I just didn't have space for them. Once I added gravel, filter, heater, a plant, a castle to hide in, and thermometer the tank was extremely cramped. The 6.6gal Petco bookshelf tank that can easily hold 5gal of waters with tons of decorations are extremely roomy and can handle a better filter and heater. Can fish be alone in 10gal tanks without freaking out? Yes. I just think some people go overboard or refuse to step down even if a fish is in distress.

I also practice what I preach. I recently upgraded from 1gal to 5gal tank set ups. When Luigi was introduced to his tank he immediately started investigating. He was bopping things with his nose, finding new hiding spots, checking out the sand (I was using gravel before) and swimming around the plants. Unfortunately, Snowy was the complete opposite. He lost some of his color, looked for the tightest corner he could find, and hide for about an hour. I thought I would have to remove him from the tank and put him back in his old 1gal tank. But he warmed up to his new home and had his color back by morning. So, it really does depend on the fish in the end. I wouldn't have thought of the new home as a failure if Snowy didn't adjust over night. I would have simply re-set up his 1gal and used the 5gal for a new fish.

That's why I agree with OFL. Luigi loved swimming in 5gal from day one so I'm glad I upgraded his set up. Snowy was freaked by the bigger tank and I wouldn't have hesitated to put him back in the tank HE preferred if he didn't grow to love his new home. In fact, I'm still monitoring Snowy until he has been in there for 2 weeks with no signs of stress, illness, or personality changes. Luigi is a regular betta so he just has the basic and lightest fin style. So it didn't surprise me that Snowy, a Crown Tail, would have a different reaction to the tank since he has different fins. Luigi had clumpy fins in his 1 gallon but that problem stopped in the 5 gallon upgrade. If I notice anything wrong with Snowy's fins or if he seemed to be continued (or suddenly becomes restressed) by the extra room, He's back in the 1 gallon. It doesn't matter that I tossed some money out the window for a snubbed tank. In the end, the tank should be best for the individual fish even if that tank’s size goes against the norm or the owner's taste in tanks.

Last edited by SnowySurface; 08-18-2011 at 02:14 PM. Reason: Clarification: I used "Practice what I preach" to say "I'm not a hypocrite". I'm not actually preaching at anyone. :)
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Old 08-18-2011, 05:24 PM   #22 
Hallyx
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If it makes any difference to you or your fish, the common 2.5 gallon glass tank holds only 2.2 gallons.
(12in x 6in x 8in / 261 = 2.2g) And that's full up to the brim.

If you leave an inch and a half overhead, like I do. Your fish is living in 1.8 gallons.

A common spec 5.5 gallon tank (16in x 8in x 10in) maths out to 4.9g brimfull. With inch and a half overhead, that's 4.2g .

Last edited by Hallyx; 08-18-2011 at 05:36 PM. Reason: para breaks inch mark
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Old 08-18-2011, 05:49 PM   #23 
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@YLG and Amy: Yeah I don't know what they were trying to say, lol

@pwnisher: Pease clarify? :S

@Indjo, Fighter: My point was basically that it is easier to keep healthy water in a larger space because the changes will be less sudden. Considering the number of beginners on here, I would personally call it malpractice to allow a total beginner (to fish, not just betta) to give them such a small tank to care for, where problems can arise suddenly and strongly, giving cause to fatalities.
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Old 08-18-2011, 05:52 PM   #24 
fightergirl2710
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That is true... Easier to mess up in a small tank than a big one. :)
I guess people look at big tanks and are intimidated by them so they prefer smaller ones. :/
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Old 08-18-2011, 07:25 PM   #25 
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While I respect and welcome others opinions based on your personal experiences, experiments and observations....

Please be respectful of others point of view and stay on topic as it relates to the intentions of the post


By making this a war/fight about tank size....indicates that perhaps you missed the point or failed to read/understand the first post and the intentions behind it.....
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Old 08-18-2011, 10:13 PM   #26 
DNangel
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Wow! This is super grreat! :D thanx for the info i think you probably saved my HM's fins and saved me money :D LOL i was gonna get a filter for a 3.5 gal. Anyways again thanx! this is an awesome post, i cant get over how amazing this was :D.
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Old 08-18-2011, 10:37 PM   #27 
LittleBettaFish
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I for one, found OFL's post an interesting read, and was in agreement with 95% of it. I agree that because of human intervention, some bettas may be better off in less than ideal sized containers. Selectively breeding for huge caudal spreads and 'Dumbo' pectoral fins, is creating fish that aren't physically able to cope in larger tanks.

It isn't about water chemistry or cruelty. Rather it's about understanding that today's domesticated splendens have become so far removed from their wild cousins as we have from apes.

I've always wondered why tailbiting never seems as prevalent amongst breeders as it does amongst pet owners. Some of those fish bred and imported from Thailand have enormous caudal spreads, and yet they only seem to develop into biters after purchase.

No one is going to argue that those fish aren't in peak health, and yet the containers they are housed in are often much smaller than this forum's ideal. That certainly says something for those who condemn such practices as cruel.
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Old 08-19-2011, 05:28 PM   #28 
thePWNISHER
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Originally Posted by thePWNISHER View Post
@Pew, Other than the water change params, it nothing disagrees with your post as well as the fact that this is more of a how to watch the behavioral signs which yours does not address as clearly. Your post is the most amazing thing for someone who has never kept fish to read. This is more of an advanced theory on temperment and adjusting to your own betta's behaviour.

@Bahamut, Magnification of chemical imbalances are always an issue but if bettas can make it in the cup at the store with the neglectful chain LPS employee. (well the half a dozen I've been to most are that way) I think anything larger would allow room for error made by someone who is willing to invest more effort. Any tank realistically that is going through a 100% change at any point no matter what the size will have the same problems since each change the ecosystem is hitting the reset button and you have to hope the living conditions are similar if not identical to what they were before the change. The caution that was given was that if you have a smaller tank then obviously there is less room for error but I believe the purpose of the original post was adjusting to temperment, not trapping your betta in a 1 gallon bowl becuase you think it dislikes too much space. its more giving an explanation that is very similar to your final words.

Final thoughts: Sometimes your betta doesn't like the set up you have for it so be flexible. I think that echoes what people are trying to say.

Okay, Since lots of people are like "what?" I'll try again:

-Any tank with no filter having 100% water changes will have the chance of errors made by the fish owner each water change.

- The purpose of the main post was to adjust to your fishes temperament which you disagreed with but then in your post you agreed with it since you pointed out how you re-homed some of your bettas. So I was more or less just wondering why you were against an opinion when in your post you supported it.

At least it came across that way to me. Maybe i missed something.
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Old 08-19-2011, 05:43 PM   #29 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBettaFish View Post
I for one, found OFL's post an interesting read, and was in agreement with 95% of it. I agree that because of human intervention, some bettas may be better off in less than ideal sized containers. Selectively breeding for huge caudal spreads and 'Dumbo' pectoral fins, is creating fish that aren't physically able to cope in larger tanks.

It isn't about water chemistry or cruelty. Rather it's about understanding that today's domesticated splendens have become so far removed from their wild cousins as we have from apes.

I've always wondered why tailbiting never seems as prevalent amongst breeders as it does amongst pet owners. Some of those fish bred and imported from Thailand have enormous caudal spreads, and yet they only seem to develop into biters after purchase.

No one is going to argue that those fish aren't in peak health, and yet the containers they are housed in are often much smaller than this forum's ideal. That certainly says something for those who condemn such practices as cruel.

i've seen breeders who still have issues with tailbiting. it's still not totally understood, and may be a result of the selective breeding that was done to produce such large, beautiful fins. my two Deltas are a good example of that. Dante only bit his tail out of boredom. giving him lots of plants, and changing around the decor after every water change stopped that. Ichi, only tail bites if his water quality slips, or if he's in view of another male that's not Theo. otherwise, neither of them bit. yet, some people have HMs in smaller tanks, and they still tail bite. i think being in larger tanks DOES play a part in it, but only to an extent. if the tank is too large for an HM(say... 10 or more gallons), it may happen. but, it depends on the fish. some bettas enjoy larger tanks, some don't. i have a short fin Plakat, Lulu, who hates larger tanks, despite being a larger girl herself. she ENJOYS the confines of her one gallon, and i'm okay with that. but, my yellow boy, Gackt, enjoyed being in his section of a 10 gallon. the current and taller space didn't bother him at all. each betta's different, and we shouldn't stick to the "larger fins should stay in smaller tanks" theory. we should, honestly, test the waters ourselves. just like with our hair, they're just fins, and they'll grow back if given the proper care. new comers to the betta world, or to the fish world in general, should start with larger tanks, as it's suggested, and move on to smaller tanks when they've learned the tricks of the trade.
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Old 08-19-2011, 06:25 PM   #30 
LittleBettaFish
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I know if I spent as much money as I just did on an imported HM male, I really wouldn't want him tearing his fins. That's why he lives in a shallow, bare-bottom tank. When I want to exercise him I either uncard his tank or use a mirror. Part of me now wishes I had done this with all my HM males prior to purchasing a whole bunch of larger tanks.

I honestly want to know why tail-biting is thought to be boredom related? I know fish are capable of feeling and responding to stress, but boredom seems beyond their emotional scope.

The only time my males bite, is when they are in the vicinity of another betta. I don't know if it's misplaced aggression or the drag of their fins making them feel vulnerable, but I know if I move a couple of my males closer to another tank, they will tear whole strips off their caudal fins.

This brings along the whole idea of whether fish are capable of feeling happiness. None of my fish have ever shown any sign of distress at being downgraded into a smaller tank. As long as I maintain appropriate conditions, there's never been any issues.

Honestly, a year ago I would have been opposed to what OFL posted. However, now I have a whole aquarium full of fish and a chance to study their individual behaviors, I realise there's more merit to her post than simply small containers equals sub-par husbandry.
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