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Old 09-08-2011, 12:35 AM   #1 
Draug Isilme
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Conditioner, test kit, or....?

Okay, so I've never had any problems, or I'm assuming, with this one conditioner I've been using for a while.. It's called 3 in 1 7.0pH Water Conditioner by Wardley. It dechlorinates, keeps the water at 7.0pH, and neutralizes ammonia. I've always had a 1.5g, so I've never really had a reason to buy a testing kit until now since I ordered (and now finally have) a 5g. I got the test kit in first, as I ordered it online at a cheaper price than you would in a lot of other stores online, or locally. I've tested my bettas water, my tap water, pre-treated water, SEVERAL times and it all ends up reading 1ppm. I don't understand. My fish hasn't been acting ill from ammonia overdose, or anything like it nor have I had any fish in the past fall prey to anything of the sort (well, when I was younger, but that was before >.>;;) I added 3 drops of my conditioner in one of the vials, added the right amount of water and turned it several times, then tested it for ammonia. It read 0ppm, finally.. but anytime I try to test anything else, no matter how much dechlorinator I put in it, it still comes up the same >.< Could it be the water conditioner? The kit (I checked the expiration date and it was manufactured at the end of last year, so no worries there)? Maybe there's something wrong with my water, I'm not sure.. -.- I'm at a loss..
I don't have money to buy a new testing kit, but maybe someone on here can give me a brand of water conditioner that neutralizes ammonia? Also, I tested my tap waters pH and it reads at 8.2-8.4 x.x The conditioner seems to do its job and actually lowers it to 7.2 (not quite what the brand claims, but pretty damn close) sooo... are there any reliable conditioners that can neutralize ammonia and lower the pH at a good price? Would I have to buy those things seperately and if so, would it be expensive? ;__; I'd like to start cycling my tank, but I don't feel I can do that until I'm able to read the ammonia levels accurately.... *sigh*
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Old 09-08-2011, 01:30 AM   #2 
Kytkattin
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First, don't worry about the PH. Unless you have a crowntail, your fish will adjust. Even with a crowntail, they only get 'curly hair', which is a look thing, not a health thing. If you feel like you must lower the PH, do so in a more natural way by using either Indian Almond Leaves or oak leaves. Tea bags might also work, but they have to be a certain type.

Have you checked to see if your water conditioner has expired? I, and many others, would recommend Seachem Prime as a wc. You need only a small amount and it does an excellent job. Petco and Petsmart both stock it. If your local one doesn't, talk to the manager. They can often order something like that along with their normal shipments. It will last you forever!
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Old 09-08-2011, 01:58 AM   #3 
Draug Isilme
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Pretty much the main reason why I'm picky about the pH is because I've read it's more ideal, and I know the fish is able to acclimate and tolerate it, but.. I don't want him to tolerate it, ya know? It's just a personal preference and it is a fish we're talking about here, but that's just the way I am. I might have to acclimate him for now, and see about the almond leaves/oak leaves/other possibilities when I'm in a better position to do so..
Anyway, I'll have to look it up later, but I'm pretty sure my water conditioner isn't expired 'cause I just bought it and it came in from the same place I got the master testing kit at the same time. But ya never know, so yeah... I'll be sure to do that tomorro when I get the chance. I've heard a lot of people mentino Prime and I figured it'd be brought up xD It's at the top of my list to look into, but I'm also hoping to get a few other opinions on other water conditioners. Thanks for the advice though ^.^ I didn't know you could use oak leaves to change the pH >.> And we're talking from the tree right? I feel stupid for asking the question, but I'd rather know exactly what you mean than make a mistake because I was too afraid to ask in the first place xD
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Old 09-08-2011, 07:18 AM   #4 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draug Isilme View Post
Pretty much the main reason why I'm picky about the pH is because I've read it's more ideal, and I know the fish is able to acclimate and tolerate it, but.. I don't want him to tolerate it, ya know? It's just a personal preference and it is a fish we're talking about here, but that's just the way I am. I might have to acclimate him for now, and see about the almond leaves/oak leaves/other possibilities when I'm in a better position to do so..
The reason that answer is given most everywhere when it comes to pH has nothing to do with convenience; but that large changes in pH are downright dangerous for any and all fish, so it is highly recommended to let them adapt to a less ideal pH and adjust natrually with the things that kytkattin has recommended. When you adjust pH chemically you run a higher risk of a "pH crash," or it changing too quickly for the fish to adapt to.

It is generally recommended to leave pH alone, unless you are dealing with particularly sensitive species, a category bettas do not fall into. Few common freshwater fish are sensitive enough to require pH adjustment; and more saltwater fish are.

While I applaud that you want to make his water as ideal as possible; it is for his own safety that it is recommended not to use chemical pH adjusters. :)
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:04 AM   #5 
Draug Isilme
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Ah, okay, that, I didn't know. Is 8.2-8.4 really okay, though? I'll acclimate him like I'm supposed to, I usually do on the off-chance I got the water measurement and water conditioner slightly off. Also, where are good places to look for almond leaves and such? And how much does it usually go for?
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:06 AM   #6 
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I agree-leave the pH alone....unless you have the correct buffers the pH can crash and then you have the changes with water changes...etc.....this is a domesticated fish that has never seen its native waters anyway and due to them being bred in higher pH and harder water at the fish farms-they are now said to fair better in harder water...

Ammonia-since your dechlorinator also covers ammonia-you are most likely seeing the less harmful ammonium and not ammonia-the test product can't tell the difference...once the nitrogen cycle has established it will remove the ammonium just like it will ammonia...
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:54 AM   #7 
Draug Isilme
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Originally Posted by Oldfishlady View Post
I agree-leave the pH alone....unless you have the correct buffers the pH can crash and then you have the changes with water changes...etc.....this is a domesticated fish that has never seen its native waters anyway and due to them being bred in higher pH and harder water at the fish farms-they are now said to fair better in harder water...

Ammonia-since your dechlorinator also covers ammonia-you are most likely seeing the less harmful ammonium and not ammonia-the test product can't tell the difference...once the nitrogen cycle has established it will remove the ammonium just like it will ammonia...
Yeah, I'll try to get a new dechlorinator of some sort. Not sure what yet, but prime is definitely looking fitting.. I was figuring it was something along those lines, I wasn't really sure 'cause I've only come across it once, but I think you're on to something Oldfishlady ^.^ Would it be okay to use this dechlorinator for now so I can start trying to cycle my tank? If not, I'll definitely wait 'cause I'm not sure if it is or isn't okay to mix dechlorinators or if it'll harm my fish or possibly kill the bacteria.. He won't be able to sit in it for a while anyway, so I figured by the time I get the new one, it'll be diluted enough to where the newer conditioner is the primary one and this one is secondary or non-existent.... but I don't know that for sure -.-
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:58 AM   #8 
Draug Isilme
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Also what about AquaSafe? With my tank, it came with tropical flakes (which I figured I could use for cycling) and conditioner... Not much of it, more like a 'trial size' which also says "New with BioExtract!" I've heard a lot of the bacteria supplement stuff is pretty much bogus, and I'm assuming that's what's in this formula..
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Old 09-08-2011, 01:40 PM   #9 
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How are you planning to cycle...fishless or fish-in....any live plants plan on start-up.....

Yes, Prime is a good choice, however, you will still get the false ammonia reading with it too....ammonium is the harmless form-but can still be used by the nitrifying bacteria to cycle the tank...
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Old 09-08-2011, 02:18 PM   #10 
Terrie
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I'm using prime and it works great!

I have a pH question too, though...I wasn't aware to just leave the pH alone....last night I used a pH neutralizer on my tap and tested the water (just for fun) about 30 minutes later...The pH read about 7.2....I'm assuming this reading is closer to my regular tap that to treated since I tested so soon....so should I just ditch the neutralizer if my regular tap sticks to 7.2?


Thanks!
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