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Old 10-24-2011, 07:27 PM   #1 
purplemuffin
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Koi...being bullies?

Generally, I've always heard of koi/goldfish as fairly peaceful fish, but I do believe there are a few who have become bullies in our pond. I'm worried about one goldfish we have in there. We inherited him from a neighbor, he's a...I don't know what kind, I'll try to get a picture, but it is dark outside, so I guess that means using flash. I'll go take a picture when I post this message anyway.

Til then: he's a fat goldfish with a really long tail, like the butterfly koi. He's got a koi pattern too, white, grey, and black.

The koi seem to push him around and not let him get food, and he's not so good of a swimmer. He seems to get some food for sure, he certainly isn't wasting away, though I am still concerned. Has anyone ever had koi that act mean like this to other types of fish? It seems to mostly be our largest koi who is the trouble one. He chases and seems to nip at the goldfish. None of the koi nip or chase each other though. Just the poor fattie.

Right now we are moving, so they haven't been moved into a permanent pond. We have a big man made tub(no idea how many gallons... A LOT. I could stack my 55 gallon in there several times to give a good idea. 200g? More maybe?), but since they are growing I know it's not going to be big enough permanently. It's honestly getting close to being really cramped since they've grown so much this summer/fall.

Do you think he should be separated permanently? Could the aggression be linked to the smaller size of the 'pond', and having more space to spread out and hide could make it easier? I'm not used to the way these fancies swim, so I don't know how well they manage being in super big/deep ponds when it comes to dealing with these other faster fish and trying to get food.


I'm going to go ahead and guess that people are going to say I should separate him since there are already issues. As soon as I get a picture I want to ask--how big of a tank should I have for him? I'm not sure on the exact type he is, so that's why I'll take the picture and ask. It's going to be difficult convincing my parents to take him out, as that will just 'make things more difficult'. But if it's one of the goldfish that just need a 20 gallon, I could probably convince her much easier. If he needs a 55 gallon, I know Nathan's dad is REALLY into fish, and we have a spare 55 that he could go in. Though I don't know how much I want that to happen, I've sort of gotten attached to him, and his dad thinks of fish as ornamental. He seems to take good care of him, but if this guy shows any issues, I wouldn't be surprised if he was just tossed out and replaced. I could talk to him about that, and have Nathan watch and be sure he's fine.
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:31 PM   #2 
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Sounds like a Ryukin, Oranda, Ranchu, or possibly a Fantail. Those are fat-bodied poor swimmers with double tails. They need about 30 gallons each.

Its not unheard of, i'm sure the Kio are much larger, since the poor Goldie will only get about a foot if he is a fancy like I think. They won't kill each other, but I would make sure the Goldie gets enough food, because they are slow and fairly poor swimmers, the Kio will eat up all his food.

If it doesn't get any better, you can get him his own 30 gallon.

Good luck!
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:47 PM   #3 
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Well, I managed to scoop him into a bowl for a couple quick pictures.




I always make sure I spend extra time to be sure he has food. One good thing is he is our only fish that isn't afraid of hands! So if I stick my fingers in the water, he will be the only one to come get the food. I can sit like that while he eats his fill, and the other fish will only rarely interfere or come up to me.
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:51 PM   #4 
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You have a very beautiful Calico Ryukin.

And yes, Fancu Goldfish love to be handled and pet most of the time. Especially Orandas. They are like little puppy dogs.

I used to pet and hold my Oranda Goldfish, Nitro (He has passed from swim bladder, be sure to watch out for that, don't overfeed, it is VERY common in fancies)
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:05 PM   #5 
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Sweet, thanks a lot, that really helps. Now I can finally look him up more specifically. I could never tell what he was because he never looked like the ones I saw in pictures--now I'm reading that calicos have less of a hump, it all makes more sense.

He is a pretty guy!
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:06 PM   #6 
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:D You're welcome, its pretty easy to identify Goldfish. Once you get the hang of it. Good luck!
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:07 PM   #7 
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Actually, on that note, I have no idea how to sex any of these guys. I'll probably look it up soon, and possibly post pictures on here for confirmation on gender.
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:09 PM   #8 
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Sexing Goldfish is VERY, VERY difficult. And near impossible if the thing isn't at least a year old. However, if you were to keep many Goldies, males will chase females, so that is one way to get an idea, but isn't a sure fire way.

With adult Common Goldfish it is pretty easy, but fancies it is very hard, you have to pick up the Goldie, squeeze it just right, and check for an egg spot.
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:11 PM   #9 
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Wow! That sounds crazy. Since I only have one fancy I don't care so much, I am mostly thinking about the koi I guess. :) I hear they have some physical features that help you figure it out, but we'll see, lol!

I'm pretty sure he's actually over a year now, though I don't know when the owner got him to be honest. We've definitely had him for at least 7 months now.
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:13 PM   #10 
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Yeah, but it doesn't really matter, right?

With Kio females will be chunkier, and one side will usually be larger than the other, males will look like torpedoes. (This is looking from above)
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