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Old 11-02-2011, 05:29 PM   #61 
Bambi
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I didn't say it was the standard, i said up to. This is also old info.
Mandy advances can be made in 4 years, but they might also be personal goals and not published.
I'm not saying there are a bunch of 6-7 inch bettas out there. But to say one never existed or couldn't exist.
What was uncommon 4 years ago is vastly more common today, evident in the wide availablity of halfmoons and PK's now, and the many colors you find in petstores other then just the blue with redwash.
I know the current 'breed' standard is 3/3.5 inches. xD I've done alot of looking aswell. But most of the info it a few years old.
I'd like to talk to someone who has been working for year to improve and not just maintain the standard.

I'm not willing to drop 60-80 bucks on a 3 inch fish when i have 2, 2 and a half in ones i got just from breeding regular fish, or i would work on increasing the size of them myself as a fun project.♥
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:48 PM   #62 
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Giants have inconsistent genetics and are harder to rear than regular betta fish, which is part of the reason the costs are high. I don't know that making a betta long would be improving the standard. Can you tell me what about a betta being that big would be beneficial for the fish? There are no standards concerning giant bettas. There is still a lot to be done in the way of form, finnage and color for giants. So, anyone doing any ethically raised breeding IS improving the standard. The user Indjo has lots of info on giants as well. It just seems like after more research you did some backpedaling there. I am sort of "arguing" because in my own research it was very hard to find factual information regarding giants and I want to give and spread the most accurate info on this board in case anyone is curious about them as well, it's not personal or anything.
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Old 11-03-2011, 10:58 AM   #63 
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I've heard different things about the giants, and the "half giant" thing doesn't really add up to me. It seems like the "Kings" we get ARE giants, but they've been sent over in containers during their growth period to sell. I asked in my 1/2 giant thread if they might be hybrids because their face looks distinct from the average plakat and they tend to have breeding issues. The consensus is that they are regular splendens with good genetics/gigantism which I could see as true especially considering the main story linked above states that the first giants were indeed plakats! I really wish I had the space, and could get a young "giant". I would power feed him in a large tank with high filtration and see if there's a mutation with their growth determination, or just good genetics. It seems to me there's something *off* about them, most of them look a bit different than regular bettas. BTW I have a stud crown tail dalmation I found at Wal Mart, and a giant. I really REALLY want to breed these two but I refuse to jump into it willy nilly. Are there any US breeders raising giants (Kings) right now?
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Old 11-03-2011, 11:29 AM   #64 
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Half giant just means it has giant genetic information but did not grow to full giant size and can still have giant offspring. Like I said, King is a marketing term. The requirement for giant is that it's 3+ inches, ideally about 3.5.

Part of the reason they might look different or weird is because they are not breeding stock that get sent to the stores, they are often undesirable colors, have slightly less than perfect fins etc.

The genetics being "good" doesn't have anything to do with whether a not a fish is a giant. The fish being a giant was through years of breeding the biggest fish until consistently large offspring were attained. They grow for about a year and a half in total, your plan would probably just make him grow faster and then get fat or possibly ill - one of the problems giants have is that they cant seem to stop eating sometimes and it creates intestinal problems that can be fatal. A giant plakat should look just like a regular plakat, if it doesn't, that's a genetic issue not related to the giant genes.

Breeding a walmart crowntail with a giant is a terrible idea and here's why - 1 - You do not know the genetic backgrounds of the fish and they both could have all sorts of problems. 2 - Breeding crowntail to anything is tricky and the f1 offspring will almost always have messy and/or undesirable fins. 3 - You will not get any giant offspring in f1. Kings = giants, king is a marketing term. I am breeding giants, I do not know of other US breeders out there doing so although I imagine they must exist. I have not been able to find them.

Also breeding giants is more expensive than breeding regular fish and requires more space.
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:36 PM   #65 
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I agree about the expense and room needed for the giants... I wouldn't mind getting into it, but I do not have space for them plus I'd rather breed the smaller bettas more first - because everything I find on here points out giants are rather hard to breed and rear... I don't even think I'll get to breed giants for a good amount of years
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Old 11-03-2011, 01:11 PM   #66 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenTea View Post
Half giant just means it has giant genetic information but did not grow to full giant size and can still have giant offspring. Like I said, King is a marketing term. The requirement for giant is that it's 3+ inches, ideally about 3.5.

Part of the reason they might look different or weird is because they are not breeding stock that get sent to the stores, they are often undesirable colors, have slightly less than perfect fins etc.

The genetics being "good" doesn't have anything to do with whether a not a fish is a giant. The fish being a giant was through years of breeding the biggest fish until consistently large offspring were attained. They grow for about a year and a half in total, your plan would probably just make him grow faster and then get fat or possibly ill - one of the problems giants have is that they cant seem to stop eating sometimes and it creates intestinal problems that can be fatal. A giant plakat should look just like a regular plakat, if it doesn't, that's a genetic issue not related to the giant genes.

Breeding a walmart crowntail with a giant is a terrible idea and here's why - 1 - You do not know the genetic backgrounds of the fish and they both could have all sorts of problems. 2 - Breeding crowntail to anything is tricky and the f1 offspring will almost always have messy and/or undesirable fins. 3 - You will not get any giant offspring in f1. Kings = giants, king is a marketing term. I am breeding giants, I do not know of other US breeders out there doing so although I imagine they must exist. I have not been able to find them.

Also breeding giants is more expensive than breeding regular fish and requires more space.

No no, I'll post a pic of my crown tail, it's a male. My giant is a male as well I have no intentions to mix breeds up, I have a beautiful female crown tail that is very young but right about the size for my male crown tail. I've let them sit beside each other before and he will dance and make a buble nest that day. The male king I have no plans to mess with breeding yet, I want to get at least one spawn under my belt before I attempt something like this, plus I'll need to find a big female. I am not even ready to breed at all at this point though, just my future plans once I think I have the details fully grasped and get my setup to house them and such.

I've looked my "king" over and aside from a nip out of his back fin he's one heck of a specimen and he is full half moon plakat, but all of the King plakats i see have a different look to them (maybe it's just me getting used to the plakat variation, I just got back into keeping Betta's and MAN have things changed). I really don't believe the breeders send the trash fish over like many think. I don't think they send their absolute A stock, but look at the betta farms overseas; they have SO many of these fish and they want people to keep buying from them. I think we would be shocked how many of these get culled and how much the shipping really does effect them.

NOW with that out of the way I have a major question. From what I've heard the "giant" part of the betta is a gene, is it carried by the male and female? Is it a mutation? Or just a selected out gene? It's crazy to see splendens changing like they are, it's almost like watching the wolf become the domestic dog
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Old 11-03-2011, 05:39 PM   #67 
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Ok. Kings are giants, and I never said your fish was trash or the ones they send were trash, but anything show quality, rare, or with amazing finnage they tend to keep for future breeding, not that there arent some beautiful bettas at pet stores, thats not what I'm saying.

If a betta is giant, it has the gene, sex is irrelevant. It's just like how people are getting bigger over time, if you have kids with a tall man, you'll have taller kids. If they have kids with a tall man, they'll have large kids as well and unless someone gets involved with a short person after that most of the family will be taller on that side.

The first giant betta bred was probably one in which gigantism occurred as a natural mutation, but then they kept using the largest fish over and over until a consistently large spawn was achieved. You have the best outcome for giants in your spawn with both parents being giant bettas.

Giant bettas are heftier and wider in comparison to length than regular sized plakats most of the time, this might be the difference you are noticing. It can make their bodies shorter. Otherwise they should look the same. If you can use a photo to show me what seems off I might understand better. I still would not breed any betta from walmart, but that's up to you.
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Old 11-03-2011, 11:34 PM   #68 
Curlyfatbottom
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Don't dis on Walmart Betta......
U can turn any fish to whatever u want...
Cause breeding is like playing god...
U choose how the babies turn out like...
With enough selective breeding...
U can turn a wild to a show class....
Giant...
They eat more...
Need more space...
Cost a lot more for a pair...
Rearing a batch right now...
One thing I find out....
Giant r not as healthy as the stander pk...
They all live in the same water n eat the same thing....
No pk or super delta have drop on me...
But three giant have....
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Old 11-03-2011, 11:36 PM   #69 
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I'm not dissing a wal mart betta, I'm stating a fact. You cant know the genetic background of that fish and it could have hidden problems so you're taking a risk by spawning it. If you get a fish from a breeder you can ask about the background and stuff.
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:02 AM   #70 
Curlyfatbottom
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True....
If u breed pet store Betta n it don't turn out right...
Just feed them to your big fish....
But if u get lucky u can start your own line of fancy...
Breed for many years....
Most of my stock r pet store Betta....
I just work with it....
Feel more accomplish when I buy a pet store Betta to produce a show class then breeding sibling from a breeder....
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