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Old 10-20-2011, 09:11 PM   #1 
TurboDude69
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Florida
Tired of seeing Pinky suffer

Housing
What size is your tank? 5 gallons
What temperature is your tank? 83-84 now but was kept at 78 before.
Does your tank have a filter? Duetto 50 Internal with slow flow
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? ghost shrimp

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Pellets, flakes, frozen brine shrimp, tubifex worms, frozen bloodworms.
How often do you feed your betta fish? once a day and fast once a week. Never more than 4 or 5 pellets. they are micro pellets. I do not overfeed and also only do bloodworms as a treat.

Maintenance

How often do you perform a water change? Weekly but daily lately
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? usually 25 percent
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? prime and aquarium salt when needed

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:5 ppm
pH:8
Hardness:na
Alkalinity: na

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Big belly
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Sometimes lazy
When did you start noticing the symptoms? 3 weeks ago
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? Yes. More down below.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? No
How old is your fish (approximately)? 1 1/2 years

Ok I recently had Bluey my first betta pass due to dropsy. Now Pinky my second betta is starting to have a huge stomach. I have tried to take pictures but they do not come out good and they are very blurry.. I have started to treat him for internal parasites using general cure. What i do is soak his food in General Cure for at least 6 hrs and then feed it to him. I used some General Cure in the tank too but I know he really needs to eat the stuff. I have tried locating anti parasite pellets but haven't had any luck. He poops white stringy stuff. I have fasted him by not feeding for 2 days then fed him half of normal for one day and than fasted him for 2 more days and his stomach hasnt really shrinked. I have seen the white stringy poop a few times even during the fasting. I raised the temperature in the tank from 78 to 83-84 over a few days because I know parasites to not like warm temperatures. I kay raise the temperature more up to 86. I have looked up all the diseases and internal parasites is the best educated guess I could make. I have been treating for 2 weeks now and I am worried that his scales might start to be pineconing. It definitely is on his belly but that is because it is so huge no other scales are yet but i think they might start to. I have been giving him 50percent water changes everyday. I have done 100 percent water change once when I first started treating. I also used betta revive for 4 days just to eliminate any possibility of it being bacterial. I already had one betta die to dropsy and it seems to me that this one is on its way to having dropsy too. I have also been treating with epsom salt everyday and i am approaching the 2 week mark and it really hasnt gotten any better. when i first started the epsom salt it was a tablespoon per gallon but i doubled that since it hasnt gotten better. There are some days where it seems like he is doing better and making progress then the next day its not so good. I just don't know what else to do and I am tired of seeing him suffer. I dont want him to catch dropsy but i don't know how else to prevent it. I know it can come from different things. He has a planted tank and i am pretty sure i kept the water quality up cuz i tested it weekly and i always do a water change weekly. Sorry for making this long but i dont want to leave anything out. I noticed yesterday he was having buoancy problems which caused me to write about it finally cuz i know a bout with internal parasites can take awhile. also i started using garlic recently. fresh garlic. I have looked up what old fish lady does cuz she is always natural with what she does. I have read just about every thread on parasite in here and did mostly what was advised. I am just running out of ideas
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Old 10-21-2011, 11:16 AM   #2 
Oldfishlady
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Welcome to the forum and sorry you are having problems......

How much of the Epsom salt did you use and for how long...did you keep him in a QT for the treatment or did you do bath/dip with the Epsom salt....is he in aquarium salt now, if so, how much...is he eating the garlic and how much have you been able to get him to eat.....
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Old 10-21-2011, 01:24 PM   #3 
TurboDude69
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Thank you OFL. I love everything you do with bettas by the way. I have to say your the best. I really like your big tank with lots of males and females. I want to try that in the future. Anyways back to the issue.

The epsom salt I have done for 2 weeks. I started with 1 tablespoon per gallon daily but increased it too 2 tablespoon per gallon. I kept him in his tank and just add the salt to it after every water change of 50 percent. And this is daily. I used a 50/50 mixture of treated tap water and ro water since I am doing daily water changes. Luckily he is a piggy and will eat whatever I put in the tank. He has eaten 3 pellet size pieces of garlic in the last 2 days. I am waiting for him to poop or his stomach to reduce in size just a lil to feed him more. I don't want his stomach to explode. Do you think the internal parasite was a good guess? Whatever it is I believe it is internal. I figured he would just be easierr to keep him in his tank cuz he only has 2 ghost shrimp in there that I am not too worried about and its so much easier on him since it has plants and his castle that are just below the water level. Plus its easier to heat. I have a empty 2.5 gallon but i hate that thing cuz the temperature fluctuates so much even with a heater

Last edited by TurboDude69; 10-21-2011 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 10-21-2011, 02:49 PM   #4 
TurboDude69
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here is a pic
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Old 10-21-2011, 05:10 PM   #5 
Oldfishlady
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You may have posted this...but..is he a double tail..it may just be the pic that is making his body look short.....this really doesn't change anything per se....
Have you had him for 1.5 years or is this his age....if you got him from a pet shop and have had him for 1.5 years-this may also be age related

To understand you used 1-2 tablespoons not teaspoons of the Epsom salt? and treated in the 5gal with daily 50% water changes adding the Epsom salt...correct....

Internal parasites is a good diagnosis and can often be problematic for a Betta with constipation issues and/or chronic problems that can compromise the immune response......Bettas and fish in general have internal parasites all the time and pass them on a regular basis to prevent problems-it is when the fish gets backed up or the immune response become compromised that they can be symptomatic and/or cause problems...

Since he has been ill going into 3 weeks and has had multi treatments and is now showing other symptoms...IMO it is most likely a bacterial issue or a tumor-especially since he hasn't responded to treatment....

Now with the raised scales along with buoyancy and enlarged stomach...he may be going into system failure, sadly not much we can do at this point but provide comfort, however, you don't want to give up too soon either-especially since he is still willing to eat...

What I would recommend-QT in a small container that can be floated in the heated tank to maintain temp in the 76-78F range-cover the top with plastic veggie wrap to retain heat and humidity for the labyrinth organ, dim lit-be sure and attach the Qt to the side so it doesn't sink or get knocked around by the filter

Premix some treatment water in a 1gal jug of dechlorinated water-Add Epsom salt 3tsp/gal and tannins-let this steep for 30min-shake well and use this premixed Tx water for 50% water changes every 15min for 1 hour to total 4 water change...keep him in this water and QT container-this is a treatment not a bath/dip
Tomorrow-start 100% water changes with the premixed treatment water every 24h for 10-14 days

Each day the premixed treatment water should be darker as the tannins are released and this is what you want....

Hold food for 24 hours and then offer small frequent meals-if you have access to mosquito larva-offer some rinsed a couple of times a day.....
Keep feeding the fresh garlic-smash some up with some steamed shrimp..2part shrimp to 1part garlic (total amount to feed at one time should be about the size of 2 of his eyeballs) and feed this 3 times a day...

Good luck and keep us posted.....
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Old 10-22-2011, 02:43 AM   #6 
TurboDude69
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No he is a regular crowntail. there was an episode where he ate his fins and thats why they look funky. It was way worst when it first happened but they have been growing slowly but surely. That was about 3 months ago. No i had him from the pet shop about a year now so i figured he was 6 months more or less when i got him. I used tablespoons. Correct on the water changes. Yeah my other betta that died from dropsy had a tumor thing before other symptoms showed up. I will post a pic of what the tumor looked like in that other betta but the pic isn't of mine. What can I use for tannins? I haven't been able to find the indian almond leaves i think it is anywhere except online. Is there anything else I can use that would be easier to find? Thank you for all your advice. I think I may be running out of time. His scales are raising more :( It hurts to see him like this especialy since this is my daugther's favorite. Well I started to work on dividing a 10 gallon 3 ways so that way I can get 3 more betta's after Pinky passes. My daughter sure knows how to pick them out too. When we replaced Bluey she picked out a beautiful dragon scale plakat.
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Old 10-22-2011, 03:22 AM   #7 
Pataflafla
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I would get him ina smaller tank or something you could float in his current tank to make water changes and salt doses easier. 3 tsp/gal epsom salt for the smaller container he's in and 10% changes every day.

Unfortunately if he's been on epsom salt for so long without improvement, there may be nothing left that you can do.
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Old 10-22-2011, 10:35 AM   #8 
Oldfishlady
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I use Oak leaves from my Oak trees.....naturally dried and fallen from the tree...Oak leaf....about 12-18 crushed per gallon of treatment water.....
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Old 10-23-2011, 12:25 PM   #9 
TurboDude69
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Ok I am going to the store today to buy a plastic container to float him in. All i have is metal or porcelain bowls. In the meantime I crushed up oak leaves and let them soak in some water for half a day. Than I just poured it all in his tank leaves and all. Also added more epsom salt. This was last night. Well today I woke up and he is alot more active and he even blew a tiny bubble nest which I think he has only blown one before this since the whole time I had him. I still made a batch of treatment water like OFL suggested for when I do start floating him in his qt container. I am not getting my hopes up but I am glad he is at least feeling better. He doesn't look as huge either. I know the leaves are probably what caused him to blow the bubble nest. He also doesnt have the buoyancy problem at the moment. I know it probably wasn't the best thing to do as far as putting the leaves in his tank but at this point I will try everything to make him better. I figured since he will be in a qt bowl today that the leaves wouldn't hurt in there for now. He also pooped a nice thick brown poo yesterday.

Last edited by TurboDude69; 10-23-2011 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 10-23-2011, 03:45 PM   #10 
Oldfishlady
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Good to hear that you are seeing some improvement....the leaf bit will not hurt anything...I find that my Bettas enjoy picking at the microorganism on them and kinda playing in them in a sense...lol.....Since you are making frequent water changes this won't be a problem...but for an FYI...especially when you keep anything organic in a tank-the decomp can change the chemistry-especially the pH...the water can become more acidic-a natural process.....but as long as you do proper acclimation to the chemistry it shouldn't ever be problematic.....
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