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Old 11-08-2011, 04:26 AM   #1 
checkerzelda
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[spawn log] Red/blue CT x Turquoise CT - need advice :)

Hello everyone, it's my first post here. Nice to meet you all. :)

My current predicament..My first spawn turned 3-weeks old on Saturday. I've been feeding them mainly on microworms which they love, and one occasion, BBS. The fry have been relatively healthy and I have not lost any due to diseases (the ones that died off were weak and small compared to their counterparts). I started off with 80+ fry and still have almost the same number today- I count my blessings, lol. Water change is a daily 10% since they turned 2 weeks, and every 3 days or so I change about half. They are now about 1 cm long on average and are showing slight irids on their tiny fins. :D

They were perfectly fine until yesterday night, when I noticed 2 of my fry had a red bloody bump/patch over their forehead. I isolated them immediately, did a 90% water change to the fry tank and added about 10 drops of Melafix in it. One of the two died a few hours later and the other one is being treated with a few drops of the same medicine. It is still alive and swimming the last time I checked it this morning. The red also seemed less obvious...I think. Half of my fry looks slightly redder on the gills, and I am not sure if it is normal and I'm just paranoid, or it's a sign of a disaster to come. T^T

My question is, has anyone come across such a situation and is there any effective solution to this?
From my research, it seems to be a bacterial infection based on this website: http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/killer.htm
The fry in the picture is exactly how mine looks like. >_<

Any advice is much appreciated!

---

On a lighter note, here is a few pics of my 3-week old fry :)











---

I'll post more pictures once I am done sorting out my betta folder. :)
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Old 11-08-2011, 05:05 AM   #2 
Gloria
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Congrats on your 3 week old fry (Mine turned 3 weeks yesterday, I have a log on here if you want to look at it)...
I am REALLY sorry to hear that some are not well. I am sorry for the loss of that little fry. I am sorry that I cannot help you but I truly hope someone on here will be able to!!
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Old 11-08-2011, 05:24 AM   #3 
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Hmm, i've heard of red gills being a sign of ammonia burns(never had that issue myself so i can't tell you for sure). but you seem to be doing enough water changes.
Maybe up to 15% daily.(i do 20% simply because that's the size bucket i use).

If it is bacterial you could try an antibiotic? The site you link said tetracycline and frequent HUGE water changes helped. I'm not sure where you could find it locally where you live. If you can't get the antibiotics i would keep doing larger water changes and Qt any suspected infected fry.

methlyne blue is suggested for bacteria too, right?(going off the linked page aswell and my little past knowledge). you could try some of that?
Just remember to keep the medications to a minimum. They're generally a last ditch effort and can be just as harmful to fry sometimes as what you're trying to fix. Hopefully someone here has some experience and can help.
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Old 11-08-2011, 06:44 AM   #4 
indjo
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Hi, and welcome to the forum.

When that happens, I usually do a 100% wc and scrub/wipe the tank. How big is your tank? Perhaps more bacteria are produced daily and your wc is insufficient. Or you could try using filters - 1cm is big enough to handle slight current. If you're using a corner filter, don't place it in the corner as it should be because fry might get trapped between the filter and glass.

I mainly use a local medicine (don't know the contents - it's yellow). My Qt are 1g tanks where I usually keep 12 1cm fry. I feel this is easier to control than big tanks where all are in there. But IMO it's more the wc that cures them than the medicine - I do twice 30 - 50% wc daily and weekly 100% + totally clean the tanks (always refill with medicated water).

If there's no improvements, I usually add AQ salt 1/2 - 1 tsp/g (depending how bad their condition are), and massive daily wc (50-100% daily).

Good luck. Hope your fry makes it.
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Old 11-08-2011, 07:46 AM   #5 
checkerzelda
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Thank you for the opinion and advice!

Gloria: Congrats on your fry too! Looks like the babies are at the same age. Good luck on your spawn. ^__^

Bambi: I'm guessing the red gills are a precurser to the bloody forehead. Tetracycline and aquarium antibiotics are ridiculously expensive here and very few shops sell them. I'll leave that option out for now and will see if WC and aquarium salt helps. Will be careful with the dosage.

Indjo: My tank is 2 feet long..the regular 10g, I think. I have a sponge filter going from the start. Yup, I've heard of the miraculous "yellow powder"..unfortunately I don't have any with me now, and am probably going to order it online soon. My fault for not stocking up on medications earlier. :/ When you say 100% wc, do you mean you remove all fry? do you use a net or simply siphon them out? and here I was a bit worried that a 100% wc would disrupt the nitrogen cycle. Guess now is not a time for that, huh. And I haven't have enough time to age the water too..@_@

My first sick fry is doing better now and is eating normally in its QT tank. The red bump is really slowly dissipating. :D From the 2 fry that died, looks like it only gets too late when the red bump spreads like a red line along the spine. I'm going to move out all fry now and scrub the tank clean and see if they do better.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:37 AM   #6 
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Yes move them (I use a net but some people say you can damage HM fry's fins - your choice), clean the tank, and then put them back in. This "new water" isn't cycled, you might need more wc.

If others aren't affected and you don't have enough water ready, you could try "cleaning" as it is. Wipe from bottom to top. Try not to release debris into the water (this is often tricky). Take out all the plants (if you're using them). Then when your new water's ready, do a massive wc. That way you still have your cycle. If you're worried about shock due to different water pram, refill using the drip system.

Tbh, I don't fully understand water pram - I don't use water testers. This is just what works for me. ..... I always clean everything every month, otherwise I get problems like you (whether in small containers or in big 50g+). Hopefully someone with better knowledge about water and diseases will jump in and explain everything.

Glad to hear your sick fry is getting better.
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:26 PM   #7 
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I can't wait to see some pictures...
We can compare our fry since they're only a few days apart :)
Hope all is going ok and that the sick fry are getting much better!
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:28 PM   #8 
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Indjo: In the end, I chose the net. :) I don't understand water param either and have no idea how water testers even look like. But yes, I guess nothing beats a regular water change. Thanks for the help!

Gloria: Indeed! I hope all goes well with your spawn also..so at least if mine doesn't work out I can still admire yours cause they're the same age~ xD

---

So...I did the unthinkable today and brutally netted out my fry twice within 24 hours, muahahah. Took Indjo's advice and did a complete 100% wc yesterday night.

I moved out around 50 fry into a 2g temporary tank, and separated another 20 or so into two mini 0.5g containers. Gave the original tank a major scrub and submerged my sponge filter and plastic plant with boiling water..before I figured it won't do any good because you'd still have to dip your contaminated net into the pristine water when you move the fry back anyway, lol. I left the fry alone in the 2g to let the water age in the main aquarium for a day. When I came back, I counted my casualties to 4...3 in the 2g and 1 in one of the 0.5g. Two of them had the telltale red gash on the forehead. I guess they were too late to be saved..:/ I quickly netted out all fry from the 2g back into the main tank..and they resumed swimming and eating in no time. Most of them still have the reddish gills though, but I'm optimistic. As for the two mini QT containers, I changed the water and will leave them in there for now. My backup babies! Eggs in a few baskets is always better than all in one. ^^;

On the brighter side, my FIRST sick fry is doing great! Eating and behaving normally, and there's only a little bit of red tinge left compared to yesterday's red bump. That completely made my day. :D From today onwards, he's going to get special treatment from me if he lives through this, haha. I've decided to raise him separately from the rest. :)

I'm going to sacrifice some sleep and change 90% of the water daily for the next week and hope the infection goes away on its own. Will keep you all updated. I'm uploading some pics now..do check back in a min. :D

Last edited by checkerzelda; 11-09-2011 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:54 PM   #9 
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Pics!

Yesterday, before the water change

Notice the red bump on first sick fry's forehead


First casualty on the left..


My new wallpaper, just because


24 hours later, taken a few hours ago after massive water change

First sick fry. Forehead still a bit reddish, but no more bump. Has resumed eating and swimming normally


My temporary tanks during the wc



Rest of the fry

















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Old 11-09-2011, 02:02 PM   #10 
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For the record, here are the parents:



M: Francis (Blue/Red/Brown CT)
F: Ciel (Turquoise CT)

Betta dad actually wrapped two different females on more or less the same day (which prompted me to name him Francis (Bonnefoy). If you watched Hetalia, you'd get the joke, haha. And same colours too!) ^^; From the start, I did intend to let him spawn with Ciel, my young blue CT female but I also had this nagging feeling that she was too young/small and not ready to spawn.. then again CT fry were ideal for me! I did everything by the book..dad spends half his life building bubblenests anyway, he was more than enthusiastic and gentle but she kept running away from him. I left them together for a day. Next morning Ciel was still hiding in a corner and dad hovering underneath his bubblenest, so I thought it was a failed attempt. And so I replaced Ciel with my red HM. This time, the courtship went smoothly because both were as eager, lol (she was fat with eggs). After 7-8 hours of wrapping but still no eggs, I supposed she was too big for him.

By then, Ciel had started to display vertical barrings..so as a last ditch effort, I switched her back, watched for a while and left them alone for the night. They were in the middle of spawning when I checked on them the next morning. That was on 15 Oct 2011..it all began from there. :DD

Francis began making bubblenests again within hours after I took him out..xD;

I compiled video logs, if anyone's interested:

Unsuccessful first attempt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0cPzSsGhFY

Spawn log

Part 1- Spawning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtViQsz1shE

Part 2- Dad picks up eggs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXpNjf5E5ZM

Part 3 - 2-week old fry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUdxszNFqbI

Part 4 - 2week 5day old fry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGYw7YxrNkE

Part 5 - 3-week old fry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pr6qgy7PVQ

Shortly after putting up part 5, I think I jinxed myself, haha.
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