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Old 11-27-2011, 12:01 AM   #11 
Hisaki Yuki001
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Originally Posted by inkrealm View Post
yeah.. well at least you know it's not your fault and that you did everything you could.... if we ever do figure out that this disease is genetic I'm going to be furious... there's no excuse for something like this... if it does come down to that I would love to hear their take on it... I hope we can get to the bottom of this... best wishes for the little guy... he sounds like a fighter...^-^;
Yeah... If I find out that is the case or caused by some change in some kind of supplies we used I'm going to be pissed. Of course if that was the case, they'd probably never admit it unless they did a recall.
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Old 11-27-2011, 12:15 AM   #12 
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indubitably |c
but we will find out one way or another. T^T and that's a whole lot of angry people~
I think most of the caretakers of the fish in the cases found on here did compare notes in that topic already though.... didn't find any common product as far as I recall.... and I'm still latching onto genetics.... unless as you said maybe they effect differently colored fish in different ways.... do you think it could do that?.... I didn't think they could be selective.... but then again I don't know many facts.... I guess they could attack the same but be easier to see on some colors more than on others... but on your boy if he has it you'd think we might get to see this... and it should still kill at the same rate and therefore still be noticeable appearance aside, right?...


plus we see it in experience and inexperienced caretakers alike....

Last edited by inkrealm; 11-27-2011 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 11-27-2011, 01:33 AM   #13 
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indubitably |c
but we will find out one way or another. T^T and that's a whole lot of angry people~
I think most of the caretakers of the fish in the cases found on here did compare notes in that topic already though.... didn't find any common product as far as I recall.... and I'm still latching onto genetics.... unless as you said maybe they effect differently colored fish in different ways.... do you think it could do that?.... I didn't think they could be selective.... but then again I don't know many facts.... I guess they could attack the same but be easier to see on some colors more than on others... but on your boy if he has it you'd think we might get to see this... and it should still kill at the same rate and therefore still be noticeable appearance aside, right?...


plus we see it in experience and inexperienced caretakers alike....
That's what I'm thinking as well... If he does have it, I'm wondering why he's still around. Maybe it's the meds I put him on? IDK The medicine she gave me I never heard of before, so I never intented to use it, let alone knew before that if it was safe for Bettas. I'm just thinking if it's not genetic, that it may be able to effect differently colored fish in different ways. I'm not sure as I'm just thinking of the possibilities since we don't know much about it.

Everything I look at online about necrosis in fish point towards a crap-load of bacterial pathogens that are grouped with or related to the Columnaris type diseases. Another thought I had was maybe Saprolegnia which is a type of fungus that is often mistaken for columnaris. The only reason I though of this is while reading through some of the documents of it online, it showed a picture or two of what looked like those guys fins. Saprolegnia are present in ALL aquariums and ponds as well. But it never siad anything about it killing a fish in 24hrs. IDK If it's not one of these, maybe it could be an advanced or medicine resistant form? My thoughts on this are maybe it mutated to resist common meds we use like staff infections that became resistant to meds, as this form of staff is known as Mrsa. I don't really know anything about it. I'm just brainstorming thoughts in my head. Sorry.

The page I was referring to here is listed below. Like I said, just some thoughts I'm having.

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html

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Old 11-27-2011, 07:24 PM   #14 
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no, I think it's really interesting... I just wish I knew enough to keep up and add some useful thought in, haha :P you have some really good theories though.... ^-^ maybe next case we get we can try your meds out if they're able to get them fast enough.... then we could see if there's a pattern..... on the blue-related line, maybe he's lasting longer because he only has some blue and it's only attacking those parts?.... iunno though... again that'd have to be the color line... also I guess some diseases do look different on different-colored fish, like I think finrot does? the diseases you mentioned do sound like the closest ideas.... and you're right about mutations and immunity,, I never even thought of that....... that'd actually make sense xc
I'm having to use my brother's computer right now and his keyboard is a nightmare... I'll try to get ahold of one of the normal ones later tonight to have a look at it though.... thankyou for the read. :3 I love learning about these sorts of things but I rarely get around to it with everything else, so I really appreciate it. ^-^
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Old 11-27-2011, 11:18 PM   #15 
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no, I think it's really interesting... I just wish I knew enough to keep up and add some useful thought in, haha :P you have some really good theories though.... ^-^ maybe next case we get we can try your meds out if they're able to get them fast enough.... then we could see if there's a pattern..... on the blue-related line, maybe he's lasting longer because he only has some blue and it's only attacking those parts?.... iunno though... again that'd have to be the color line... also I guess some diseases do look different on different-colored fish, like I think finrot does? the diseases you mentioned do sound like the closest ideas.... and you're right about mutations and immunity,, I never even thought of that....... that'd actually make sense xc
I'm having to use my brother's computer right now and his keyboard is a nightmare... I'll try to get ahold of one of the normal ones later tonight to have a look at it though.... thankyou for the read. :3 I love learning about these sorts of things but I rarely get around to it with everything else, so I really appreciate it. ^-^
It's no problem. Thanks for listening. I was kinda just freaking out and my mind was racing with thoughts on what it could be last night. I think it was spurred a little by an emotional overload as well as my little Indigo passed yesterday morning. As I was looking into info on both subjects, the mystery desease that's going around and Rojo being sick, that's what I kept coming across and thinking in both situations.

Update:

Last night I put him in my empty 2.5 gallon as I decided to use it as my Quarantine tank. I'm continuing to use 2 - 2 1/2 teaspoons per gallon of salt and a double dose of Nitrifuranzone in his tank. I also rinsed out and put his little glass vase that he loves to hide in in there as well as a mini-nano filter without charcoal. I thought this might help him settle down a bit as he's been showing his stress stripes. He always shows his stress stripes when he's in the 1 gallon Quarantine tank.

Tonight he still seems very weak, but the disintegration doesn't seem to be getting worse as of today, even though it's hard to tell. The fuzzy white stuff on his side seems to have gone down a little tiny bit. The tiny pieces of fin-age, that fell off last night as I placed him in there, the size of Betta pellets, is completely dark blue. The meds in the water seem to be attacking them in other-words. He's slightly more active tonight than yesterday, but not by much. He is still refusing to eat as of the past two days though. He ignored food yesterday all together. Today he at least checked it out. His stress stripes seemed to have gone down a bit as well.

I have to wait till Thursday or Friday before I can get stress-coat for him. If I can't get him to eat in a few days, I may try hatching some BBS and feeding him them in a separate container of just fresh treated tap water. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, hoping that he's starting to slightly improve.
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:22 AM   #16 
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Exclamation

Update:

Like I said before, I'm not sure if he's going to pull through. I just noticed that he's starting to show signs of dropsy. he seems a little swollen and some of his scales on his sides are raised and kinda pin-coning away from his body. He's not completely pineconed yet. Does anyone think that I could add an anti-parasite med to the treatment I'm doing? I was reading about it in the treatment area. Should I stop the AQ salt treatment? I know with dropsy you should add epsom salt instead but I have none right now.
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:10 PM   #17 
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it's the least I can do... I wish there was more to be done to help.... I know it's hard to see them like this.... and I'm sorry to hear about your other boy.... I can only bet how much harder this all must be...
I'm sure he appreciated the larger tank and his vase <3
I'd remove any finnage that has separated itself from his body... particularly if the meds are focusing on it, might slow them down on him? definitely interesting that it's attacking it though.... 0-o

glad the rot seems to have at least quit spreading and the fuzz is going down a tad.... also sorry to hear downs are coming with the ups... but I suppose it's better than all downs <3
I'm not sure about the dropsy as my boy's never had it... I thought I read somewhere epsom salt was actually bad for it?... maybe not though.... I would post a second board particularly asking about dropsy treatment... or contact Old Fish Lady.... maybe she'd even no a natural remedy? like I said I haven't had much with dropsy... still hoping for you guys :( <3





here's someone who supposedly managed to save one of their fish from it....
"I had 1 with dropsy that survived. Everyone told me to treat her for parasites, but it took 2 weeks to get parasite medication, so I used what I had. Jungle Fungus Clear (at 3x the recomended dose) and epsom salt with 100% daily water changes with more meds. After about a week, the bloating started going down, and then her color started coming back. "

from here by callmeconfused...
but with all the meds he's already needing that seems like it might overload him.....




here from a morewell-known member...
"Dropsy
•Symptoms: Your betta will have a bloated belly and raised scales. They will look like a pine cone. This is usually a fatal disease caused by an internal bacterial infection resulting in internal organ failure but many have had success bringing fish back when treated quickly.
Early Symptoms: Swollen eyes (important), Gray belly (important), Clamped fins, Lethargy. If your fish has swollen eyes and a gray belly, I suggest that you treat it for Dropsy.
•Treatment: If you spot the early signs of Dropsy then treat him/her with ES at 1-2tsp/gal and Jungle’s Anti-Parasite pellets while performing 100% daily water changes. It helps to increase the temperature to 84*F. If he/she has begun Pineconning then do the full course as described below:
Performing daily 100% water changes. Increase the temperature to 84*F. Add 1-2 tsp/gal Epsom Salt. Use API General Cure OR API Erythromycin OR Maracyn II and/or Maracyn for best results. Feed something containing Metronidazole, for example, Jungle’s Anti-Parasite pellets. If caught early, Dropsy is curable. "

from
diseases and treatment guide



from LittleBettaFish:
"Dropsy is basically caused by organ failure. It's the kidneys starting to shut down, which is why once they reach the pineconing stage it is very difficult to successfully treat. Ideally, you would you some kind of anti-bacterial if symptoms presented, but high doses of epsom salt sometimes help draw out the fluids." :/

Last edited by inkrealm; 11-28-2011 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:29 PM   #18 
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and the boy here had both a tumor and dropsy... OFL gave them advice on first page.... the fish didn't make it, but his scales did flatten before he passed, so the treatment may have worked if not for the tumor... might be worth a try anyway.... and like I said, you may try asking OFL what to do in a case where he's already high under meds... if anyone knew anything it'd probably be her... he's already taken a lot of hits though... poor boy... :/ I definitely think there's nothing you could do differently though..
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:46 PM   #19 
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and the boy here had both a tumor and dropsy... OFL gave them advice on first page.... the fish didn't make it, but his scales did flatten before he passed, so the treatment may have worked if not for the tumor... might be worth a try anyway.... and like I said, you may try asking OFL what to do in a case where he's already high under meds... if anyone knew anything it'd probably be her... he's already taken a lot of hits though... poor boy... :/ I definitely think there's nothing you could do differently though..
Thank-you so much for the help and support. That's my fear as well, that I don't want to over do it with him and meds. I hear that aquarium salt helps retain water sometimes as well, so I'm wondering if that may be causing some bloating as well? IDk. The only other thing I can think to do is maybe just do a 100% water change tonight and place him in just treated tap water W/O the salt and just add the meds. I figure that might be able to let me know if it's due to salt or not. If it's not due to the salt he may balloon. If it is due to it, I'm thinking this might help him. IDK

If it does help, I think I'll keep him on the meds and just wait and get Epsom salt on Thursday with Stress coat if he lasts. After that, I'll try what OFL said. I think some of his flaoting issues is due to his severe fin damage as well though. It's so hard to tell. Aside from this, his wounds seem to still be doing a bit better. They're starting to look more cleaned up. I'm just hoping he can hold on a bit longer as he might be able to pull through if he can.

Again, Thank you so much. I know he can go either way at this point, but as long as he's still fighting I'm not going to give up. Thank-you so much. :)
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:22 PM   #20 
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I'm really just glad to do as much as I can if it can help in any small way at all... ^-^<3
I think removing the salt is a shot at this point... I think this definitely counts as one of those cases where you use resorts you would generally avoid... and since bloating is inner, not outer, I don't think the salt would have any effect on stopping it... it's worth a try at least... my boy's been in two teaspoons per gallon for several days, but the .5 could make a huge difference and besides that your guy has loads of other issues playing in that could make it worse, so I think you're right in not ruling it out....
your plan sounds pretty good to me, :3 and another good point I could see being easily miss-able... the damaged fins probably would be tough to swim with ^-^;
I'm glad his wounds are still doing well... I dunno if that'd be due to meds or his immune system coming back or both... but it's good it's getting the stuff out either way....

and I agree.. I think if the fish isn't willing to give up yet we owe it to them not to give up either regardless of which way it goes ^-^
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