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Old 11-25-2011, 12:25 AM   #11 
NalaUchiha
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Damon is pretty stressed. We removed his rocks, for now, to make cleaning easier. But I think he is okay for the night (: Thank you for all your help, by the way! :3
We have no small air pump but I may be able to make my way to PetSmart tomorrow to get one.
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Old 11-25-2011, 12:27 AM   #12 
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Well, I dont think it would make much of a difference, so unless they're on sale or something don't spend the money because I know they can get expensive.
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Old 11-25-2011, 12:32 AM   #13 
NalaUchiha
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Well, I may just leave him be, he looks a bit more happy. He swam in a straight line, again, just a moment ago but he is still sick. I am so glad I have more luck with Bettas then goldfish. I think Damon will be okay for the night.
In happier news ((for random XD)): Alexander is being spoiled because I just cleaned his tank because I cleaned Damon's. Alex is a brat. XD
We have a small air pump but it is in the shape of a Dino and makes a whole lot of racket; which I think was stressing Damon, when he had the filter in.
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Old 11-25-2011, 10:20 AM   #14 
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Alright, I have a picture of him from yesterday before Damon begun turning pale. This was about the beginning of his mood, habit, and eating changes. You can see in the photo that he is swimming on his side.
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Old 11-25-2011, 11:38 AM   #15 
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Welcome, and sorry about your guy.. you have some sound advice going on, so I'm sorry if I repeat any here.

How did you acclimate him when you did the water change right before the incident? It seems a couple of things went wrong-

If you didn't acclimate him to both the temp and the chemistry, that caused the shock (turning upside down, etc). Especially after not having the proper water changes prior. 15-30 mins in his cup floating in the tank for the temp, as well as every 5-10 mins removing a bit of water from the cup and adding in some of the tank water will adjust him to the chemistry of the water.

It is unwise to use filters for water for fish water, filtered water/spring/distilled lacks the proper nutrients and minerals needed. You will want to use normal tap water with water conditioner that removes chlorine, nitrate/ites.. by not using it you can/will cause ammonia burns ammonia/nitrate/ite poisoning.. with what I read, it looks as if it's a mix of not being properly acclimated and not ridding the water of the deadly chemicals. As well what may of made it worse is you changing the tank after he already went into shock into a new tank that you have no idea the temp, how close it was to what he was just in, and not making it safe with the chemicals. Unfortunately by doing that, you just created the same thing that caused him to go into shock. You have to remember, with a filter and without, the deadliest and most harmful things in that tank are invisible.

With a filtered 4 gal tank, you should only have to be doing 50% per week as the minimum, with regular weekly siphoning of the substrate. If he is in an unfiltered tank that is less then 5 gals, then 1 50% and 1 100% per week is needed.

Always use water conditioner each water change unless you are using well water and you know it is safe as each well water is different depending upon location.

The 4 gal and 2 gal won't cycle, and what they do is it's own "mini" cycle in a sense.. normally tanks under 5 gals won't hold a cycle because of all the water changes needed to make on a regular-weekly basis.

Stop the AQ salt usage.. right now you are probably doing more harm then good- as using it when uneeded/unnecessary will cause resistance from the fish and the bacteria to the beneficial properties of the salt (it's used for fin rot, ich, etc.. ) as well as over exposure will lead to livery and kidney failure in them.

For this shock and poisoning, sadly, there really is nothing you can do other then put in the safe, proper chemicals, keep the water clean and make sure to acclimate him properly to each water change. All he needs in his water is the water conditioner, anything else will stress him out.

Unfortunately, all this could of been avoided easily with simple acclimation.. hopefully he can pull through. Wish you the best.
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Old 11-25-2011, 11:49 AM   #16 
NalaUchiha
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Hello Myates and thank you for your post and tips; and for the luck.
I don't believe Damon's issue is acclimating him because he has been through the steps and temperature measurements many times. I don't know if I understood you properly though because he has been in the tank of his for eight months at least; with the neglect of not changing and cleaning the tank because I thought the filter done that for me; apparently it did not.
Our filter on our tap water takes out the harmful chemicals that the water from stores do but it does not have the minerals. Would the minerals help him through this time? Would it be a smart idea to change to the mineral water? Both of my bettas have been living in the filtered tap water since I have had them.
I think i am dealing with a case of SBD, how he swims sideways, and how he has become more bloated then usually. I have always fed him Freeze Dried Worms, because he couldn't eat anything else, and to me he has a very small mouth; but maybe he is just a baby. The dried worms may have caused the SBD.
He also seems to have pop eye, on of his eyes are bulging, and I am currently treating this and the SBD with an all natural medication and salt water and a heater to make sure his water temperature stays complete right.
Thank you for your concerns; I am thinking I will start using mineral water; especially for him. Thank you for the luck, also.
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Old 11-25-2011, 01:36 PM   #17 
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Tap water unfiltered is still the best idea- as it has the minerals and nutrients needed, and even with filtered water you will still need the water conditioner- so would be easier on the budget to just use tap. Even if you use water from the bathroom sink- that is healthier then bottled/filtered water. I am unsure if the filter you have is a whole house water system filter, or just on the nozzle in the sink- if you have a house filtration system (usually located in the garage or outside the home, then you can continue to use that- there are bottles of nutrients you can buy to supplement the water if needed. If it's just on the faucet then use a different faucet. The process removes too much of what is needed, and the fish themselves will build up ammonia and nitrates, etc on their own, so they still need the neutralizer (conditioner) in the water. It's your choice, I am just making sure you know the recommended, and safest way to keep them healthy.

Bettas are hardy little ones, and can live in unfavorable conditions for a good while, but it always catches up to them at some point. Which this may be the point.

What salt are you using? AQ salt will make SBD worse, as well as not work for the bulging of popeye.

The best, safest, cheapest and easiest on them for SBD and popeye is:

2 teaspoons of Epsom Salt (located in most pharmacy section of stores) per gallon pre-dissolved before placing fish in it, water conditioner, daily 100% water changes- the Epsom should clear up the SBD within a few days, popeye could take a few days longer. Fast for 2-3 days as well to help with the SBD, then start feeding lower amounts and build up. If popeye doesn't get better then combine the ES with API Tetracycline, API Fungus Cure, API General Cure, API Triple Sulfa, OR Mardel’s Maracyn.
You also said scales were raised? Dropsy has similar symptoms- bloating, raised scales, even popeye can come from dropsy.
Early Symptoms: Swollen eyes (important), Gray belly (important), Clamped fins, Lethargy. If your fish has swollen eyes and a gray belly, I suggest that you treat it for Dropsy.
•Treatment: If you spot the early signs of Dropsy then treat him/her with ES at 1-2tsp/gal and Jungle’s Anti-Parasite pellets while performing 100% daily water changes. It helps to increase the temperature to 84*F. If he/she has begun Pineconning then do the full course as described below:
Performing daily 100% water changes. Increase the temperature to 84*F. Add 1-2 tsp/gal Epsom Salt. Use API General Cure OR API Erythromycin OR Maracyn II and/or Maracyn for best results. Feed something containing Metronidazole, for example, Jungle’s Anti-Parasite pellets. If caught early, Dropsy is curable.

But for now, just do the Epsom Salt treatment for a week and if it's just SBD and popeye, he should be fine at the end of it. Epsom won't hurt him internally, as with AQ salt's risk.. it's very safe, and when you're done using it with him, you can always bathe in it and feel good too :)

It sounds as if you are getting on the right track with him, keep us updated on how he is doing though. Hope he pulls through.. and you're welcome :) I've been taking a hiatus lately, but saw this and thought I would chime in to see if I can help any.

Last edited by Myates; 11-25-2011 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 11-25-2011, 02:05 PM   #18 
NalaUchiha
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Epsom salt is what we are using on his right now and actually he seems to be getting a little better. A bit of his color came back, not enough to have a party about, but enough to notice. He has vibrant colors so just to see the red scales start to get color again is great.
On thing I am noticing is that he sure likes that heater, he stays near it in his tank, and seems to enjoy it's warmth. This might turn into a keeper, the tank is at 77-80 degrees right now, instead of the normal 73 degrees. ((Note: This was a very gradual change.))
Thank you for giving some tips! (: Damon says thanks to, trust me. But the main update is he is starting to move a bit more and he is getting color again. I don't think he has Dropsy but I will keep an eye on him; better safe then sorry.
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Old 11-25-2011, 03:16 PM   #19 
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Hi NalaUchiha and welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear about Damon.

It sounds like the sudden switch from dirty 8 month old water to clean water shocked Damon, that's why he may have gone belly up right after you cleaned the filter. In addition, he's definitely suffering from ammonia poisoning.

As the others have said, stay away from Bettafix and Melafix. For now, what you'll want is aquarium salt. Make sure it's aquarium salt, not table or marine salt. Put 1 tsp per gallon in, but predissolve it in a little tank water first.

You DO need to get a water conditioner, even though you have good tap water. I highly recommend Seachem Prime.

Definitely do keep the heater in with him and try to keep the heat at 78 degrees if you can. In his 4 gallon tank, you don't need to do 100% water changes right now if you don't want to, because the constant moving around could stress him. What you can do is take out half of the water and replace it with water treated with salt. You DON'T NEED TO TAKE HIM OUT when you do a partial change. As long as you leave enough water to cover him, he will be fine.

Just so I know, can you repeat what his symptoms are?

EDIT: I didn't realize others has posted before me. Disregard anything I said that was repeated by Myates. Ooops.
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Old 11-25-2011, 06:08 PM   #20 
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i'm glad to hear damon is doing better! i was thinking about that little guy all night :)
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