Fry issues.. Help?!

[Gloria]

So.. I was really hoping I wouldn't have to post in this thread ever again.. But unfortunely i am having some issues with my fry.. I have all the information in my spawn log, but a good suggestion made by BeautifulBetta, was to post in here just in case..
So.. I have about 60 fry left. They are 5 weeks and 1 day old..
Today when I was feeding lunch I noticed that a handful (about 6/ so) are swimming on one side.. They seem to just sit at the surface swimming around on their side. Every now and then they will swim to the bottom (normally) then they head back to the top and swim sideways.
I feed my fry 3 times a day. They get BBS and sometimes grounded pellets.
Here is a picture of what they look like when theyre swimming sideways:


I am thinking SBD, but I am not too sure. I am thinking of fasting them all. But would rather have a few opions first.
they get a 40% wc daily. There are 2 snails in the tank. A sponge filter. Heater set to 28'C.

Any and all suggestions welcome. Please Help.

[vilmarisv]

Definitely SBD... Fry are very fragile and you might loose them anyway but I would isolate them from the rest and make them skip a few feedings.
The separation itself might kill them but might be your best bet.
If you have the heart for it you could cull them and concentrate on the rest. I know it sounds a little harsh but at this age SBD might cause growth problems and deformities.

[Gloria]

SBD isn't contagious but.. Why do you suggest seperating them then? Incase they die.
I don't have the stomach to cull them, I would get my bf to do it but he is currently away..
Do you think it would be ok to skip a days worth of feeding for ALL of my Fry?
Also, should I cut back on how much/ how often I feed?

[Oldfishlady]

When you have buoyancy problems with fry several things can be a cause.....genetic for one, too cool/dry air over the water, overfeeding, eating too many BBS shells, poor nutrition to name the most common.....

I would remove the fry with the buoyancy problems and either place in their own heated tank or float them in a QT in the spawning tank and start Epsom salt 1tsp/gal-premixed and make 50% daily water changes...cover the top with plastic veggie wrap to retain the heat and humidity-hold food for 1 day and then offer newly hatched BBS with yolk sac intact 2 times a day in small amount...they may or may not get better and even if they do get better the odds of the buoyancy problem showing back up as they mature...is pretty high....in all honesty they need to be culled.....

Lets save the rest of your spawn......make sure you have something over the tank...I use plastic veggie wrap to help retain the heat and humidity over the water...this is really important for the growth and development of the labyrinth in the 2-5 week range....this is often a cause of mass deaths and/or deformed poorly developed fry

If BBS is the only live food you are going to feed-only feed newly hatched BBS with yolk sac intact for the most nutrition-poor nutrition can cause sudden death-once the BBS go through their first molt you also have more shells along with limited HUFA that the fry need....when the fry eat too much of the shell this can impact them and this in turn can cause deformed swim bladder-

Poor nutrition can cause immune response issues as well.....proper nutrition and good water quality are really important

If your not already...be sure and rinse the BBS really good before you feed-by adding the BBS hatch water especially if they have gone through a couple of molts can add some really bad bacteria...some will even see out breaks of velvet that cause a mass die off of fry....

Good luck and keep us posted.....

[Gloria]

Thank you OFL.
I have removed the SBD fry into their own tank with a heater set to 28'c. I added 1tsp per gallon and have covered the top with alfoil.. I will fast them for 1 day.
As for the main tank. I have had the top covered since I put mum and dad in together. At first I used alfoil then once I moved the fry to their grow out I used/ am using a secure lid that clips onto it, I have a hole for the cords to come out but have some alfoil over the top of that as well.
I have always ensured I rinsed my BBS once hatched very well, this was something I knew need to be done and did it, I read in another thread to do this, You had posted in the thread about how the bbs need to be rinsed well and if the fry eat too many unhatched eggs its bad for them.
I do a 30%-50% wc everday.
I am unsure of how this occurred. But I will try and find out.
I have not hatched BBS myself for a week as I was having trouble getting them to hatch and got some Frozen BBS. So I am feeding frozen BBS and some finely chopped freeze dried tubifex worms.
I am unable to get any live foods where I live.

Again thank you

[Gloria]

OFL, as stated above I took your advice. Unforunetly, I found another 3 today in the normal grow out tank..
I am feeding them Frozen BBS, Freshly Hatched BBS and Freeze Dried Tubifex Worms. This is all I am able to get a hold of. I have heard that BS can also cause problems with SBD, could this be affecting it too? I am not sure what to do?
Thank you in advance for your help.

[Oldfishlady]

It also can be genetic related....usually when you see buoyancy problems with growing fry it can be related to swim bladder development-either from poor genetics, water quality, nutrition, digestion......if they are eating too many BS shells this can cause impaction, pressure that in turn can either cause swim bladder issue or cause deformity of the swim bladder...sometimes it will resolve and sometimes it won't......you may want to use low dose Epsom salt in the grow out tank too.....1tsp/gal.....although the foil should help retain the heat and humidity this can also limit light-if you can change this over to plastic wrap-only lifting a corner to feed and make water changes to limit cooling the air down over the water especially if the room they are in is cold....

If it is genetic related...not a lot can be done...sometimes they will recover on their own-only for it to return as they mature....

[Gloria]

I haven't noticed that either mum or dad have SBD, but they are Pet stop Bettas, so for all I know they could have it in their genetics :(
There are now 14 fry with bouyancy issues..
I noticed today that when I fed them lunch that 4 of the largest fry just busted their fins to get all the food, and straight away they were on their sides, So i have isolated them in a heated tank with 1tsp/g epsom salt.
If I add 1tsp/g epsom salt into the actual growout tank, how long should I repeat the process for? And if I am to be using it from such an early age, wont they become 'prone' to it?

I really appreciate your help OFL, I am so disappointed in myself for this occuring. My 5 week old fry have SBD, that's embarrassing :$

[Oldfishlady]

Don't be....stuff happens......

It sounds like you need to cut back on the amount of food you are offering and with some Betta they need long term Epsom salt 1tsp/gal-often the fry that show the buoyancy problems you may see this come and go.....as the food digest and relieves pressure on the duct- the swim bladder can expand and function properly unless it was deformed/misshapened during growth and development phases....I know you don't like to hear this....but these fry should really be culled....that is part of breeding....the ugly part but important none the less......even if they recover-it usually will return as they mature.....

[Gloria]

Thanx OFL. The fry seem to have recovered from swimming sideways but are now unable to swim downwards, they cant get to the bottom of the tank, they try and I can see it's a struggle. Its looks like theyre swimming again an upward current, thell get so far and just start 'floating' back up. Do you know what this could be? Is it another symptom of SBD?