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Old 12-05-2011, 01:03 PM   #1 
ANHEL123
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sick betta

I have betta fish from someone who didn't take right care of it. This poor betta lived in 1 gall with water changes just 100% once a month. So girl told me that fish is sick of course....I have him now at my work table. Betta does not have anything on the body. He just laying on the bottom. But he don’t lay on the side it kind of he laying on his tail and other part of his body is up. It so hard to watch him. I lowered the water level so it easier for him to swim. He is trying to eat blood worms i gave him but he keeps missing it. He is not bloated i don't know if he can swim upright. He can't swim at all he is trying but he can't. I don't think it SBD. I don't know what he has...

Before i got him which is today i gave that person pre mix 2tsp/gall of the aq salt on Friday. I decided to do salt because she told me that he is not bloated and there is no visible symptoms on his body.

So he is in 2tsp/gall salt since Friday with 100% water changes. Today I did 3tsp/gall.

He still has appetite poor thing but keep missing. I don't know what to do breaking my heart.

I will continue 3tsp/gall with 100% water changes for 10 days. I thought may be he has internal parasites? I didn't see his poop so i don't know...
Water temperature he lived in about 70* so he already adjusted to that temperature. I don't know how he survived for 2 years.... in that dirty water.

It so difficult to watch him trying to eat, but at least i think if he trying to eat and don't spa zing out then he doesn't have pain.

If worse to come and he will not get better and will not able to swim I can keep him at work and just do 100% water changes every day.

Anyone has suggesting?

Thank you.
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:46 PM   #2 
Myates
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Poor guy...

first off, remove him out of AQ salt- as that is for external problems such as fin rot and ick, etc- you would want to see problems on the outside in order to use AQ salt.. using AQ salt if he is having problems swimming due to his swim bladder you could in fact be making it worse.

Keep his water warm (78-80), if he is still in the gallon container, do a 100% water change now, then 50% water changes daily for the next 3 days to clear out his system of the salt. After that you will be wanting to do 1 50% and 1 100% per week on a regular basis as long as he is in a 1 gal unfiltered. Always dosing with water conditioner.

If he is laying on his side after a few days, then you can start him on Epsom Salt at 1 teaspoon per gallon, pre-dissolved, daily 100% water changes for about a week.

It sounds more like he is suffering from ammonia/nitrate poisoning- but if it has anything to do with his SB, then the Epsom will help. After his system is clear from salt, and if the Epsom didn't work then just keep his water level lowered and clean- but not daily 100%s, as that is too clean, and too stressful. Sadly, if it is ammonia/nitrate poisoning he most likely won't make it- especially with his age. But for now, try the clean water to see if what helps- good luck to you.

Pictures will be helpful as well in seeing whether or not it's poisoning from ammonia, or SBD, or something else causing it.
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:01 AM   #3 
ANHEL123
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Thank you i change his water. He is in plain dechlorinated water now. He is in the wide tupperware, but with a little bit of the water like maybe 2.5 inches because he still laying on his tail and has difficulty to swim. And he is trying to eat every time when i put a blood worm. He can 't eat pellet because he keep missing it. It a hard braking to see it all day long. I am trying to feed him every 1 min it takes him 20 min to eat blood worm. I take it away if he can't ....He is on my work table so i can watch him ...

So he is in the plain water today. He looks the same. Nothing visible on the body, just very skinny and laying on his tail , not bloated at all,not raised scales. I have to change water every day because it really shallow.

Sorry I can't post the pictures. But i want just make sure i will keep him in the plain water and no Epsom salt ? Is it possible he has internal parasites? I didn't see his poop so i can't tell...

Or i will see how he doing tomorrow if he is the same and no other symptoms developing then just plain water? Looks like he is not worse at all. He was in aq salt from Friday-Monday. Today I put him in plain water at 9 am.

OMG I got very excited he just ate a pellet.

Thank you so much.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:03 AM   #4 
Myates
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I know I said to hold off a few days for Epsom, but poor guy is just not feeling good-
go ahead and start Epsom Salt, it's very gentle so it shouldn't be a problem using it soon after the AQ salt. Start out at 1 teaspoon per gallon (pre-dissolve it before putting it with your guy, along with water conditioner).. daily 100% water changes- if by the 3rd day he isn't doing better, up it to 2 teaspoons per gallon. If it has anything to do with his swim bladder, that should help it. Typically, it only takes a couple of days with the Epsom Salt if it's SBD problems..

If you want, to make water changes easier on you- use a gallon water jug filled with tap water, mix in the Epsom Salt and water conditioner, give it a good swish- wait 30 mins to an hour, swish again to make sure salt is spread out and dissolved, then use that to do the daily water changes- use it until it's all gone and fill back up with the salt and conditioner as needed.

If you have tweezers, you can use that to hold the blood worm right by his mouth and he can eat off of that- what I use with mine- but I do it more for prey/predator and training purposes (teach them to eat at one location, etc).. but it may help with getting him to eat.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:40 AM   #5 
ANHEL123
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Thank you very much!
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:47 AM   #6 
ANHEL123
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He is the same not worse in a little bit of the water and i do Epsom salt. Poor thing second day i just can't feed him. He is trying to eat but he keep missing it(even blood worms) . I tried to feed him from tweezer, finger i even put food in front of his mouth. So hard to watch him. I am trying to feed him every minute. I can do it because he is at my work and i can watch him..
It just he going to starve to death? I can't authanize...i don't think he has pain though ..but he trying to eat and miss..sorry that i am taking anyone time but i am at work and my eyes full of the tears...don't know what to do. He try to live and eat but…..
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:01 AM   #7 
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It takes a bit for them to starve.. but since he is ill then it won't take as long as a healthy fish- so roughly a couple of weeks.

Keep him in the Epsom 24 hours a day, doing the daily 100% water changes and adding in fresh Epsom. If he hasn't recovered in 3 days I will see if there is anything else that can help, but I honestly don't think so. If it's ammonia poisoning from improper care prior to you getting him, then there is nothing that can truly be done.. and since he's been in the Epsom for almost 48 hrs and still nothing.. why I am giving him only 3 more days in the salt to give him a chance- Epsom is very gentle and he can be in there long term, so not worried about it affecting his health.

It's painful, but sometimes you have to look at the quality of life.. they don't feel pain like we do, but he can't be too comfortable nor happy like that. I'll check in with someone who I know is very reliable and well educated.. just prepare yourself if you can.. it's hard, it's heart breaking, but sometimes we have to do what is best for the animal. It's all about him..

Last edited by Myates; 12-08-2011 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:49 AM   #8 
ANHEL123
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i know. I am not at work on friday. I do Epsom salt with 100% water changes. Then i will do it on friday and then i will see him only on monday. And he will in very shallow water so it easier for him.
Ok i know what you saying it the right thing to do but don't know if i can.

It funny i am very superstitious i believe if i have something before i even need it then i never will need it. I don't know if it make sance. So i think i will buy what i need to euthanize him and then will see..
Can you please tell me what i need. I know it some kind of oil (clove)? Can you please give me instructions. I also know that they will just fell a sleep, but i don't think i can do it.

Thank you.
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:58 AM   #9 
ANHEL123
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I just want to say thank you for your time. I just need strength and you are really helping..I also working with a lot of people and i have to hide my tears and frustration.
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Old 12-08-2011, 11:04 AM   #10 
Sakura8
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Hi ANHEL, Myates asked me to take a look at your case here. First, I'm glad you were able to rescue the little guy and give him some happy days in clean water. Every betta deserves at least that much. :) I'm positive that the little guy knows how much you care and how hard you are trying to help him.

Your poor guy definitely has some serious ammonia/nitrate poisoning going on. Look at his eyes, do they look cloudy? If so, that may be part of the reason why he can't eat even though he wants to. If you can, it may help for you to take the little fella home so you can care for him over the weekend. It would also make things easier for you if you need to euthanize him - you can do it in some privacy.

What you do now is up to you. To be honest, I doubt he will improve to 100%. All you can really do is make him as comfortable as possible. I'm afraid the damage he sustained from his poisoning is probably too great. So here are your choices:

1) Let him pass naturally. If this is the case and you want to continue to try and feed him and make him as comfortable as possible, I definitely recommend you take him home with you. You can then try various methods of feeding, such as soaking the bloodworms in garlic juice or using an eyedropper and thawed frozen baby brine shrimp. If this is what you choose and you need some more help, don't hesitate to post or PM and ask.

2) Euthanasia. This is a hard choice but ultimately up to you. I understand how hard this decision is, as I just went through this with one of my fish a week ago. If you do decide to euthanize him, then you will need a small container, pure clove oil, and vodka.

Here are the instructions:
Begin by removing the fish from the main tank (if you haven’t already) and placing them in a small container with some tank water. Make note of how much tank water you use to keep your fish, as this is important for maintaining a proper ratio.

Fill a small jar (such as a baby food bottle) with tank water. Put one to two drops of pure clove oil into the jar, shake vigorously.

Pour of this mixture into the fish’s enclosure. After approximately ten minutes, the fish will fall asleep, sinking to the bottom of the container. If not, add a few more drops of clove oil.

Once the fish is sleeping, add pure white grain alcohol that is approximately 20 to 25% of the total water volume in the fish’s enclosure. Wait 20 minutes.

Carefully check the fish’s movements after 20 minutes. If there is no movement in the fish’s gills, they have quietly expired. If they still have some gill movement, add more grain alcohol until their movement ceases.

I also recommend you wait at least three hours before disposing of the body, just to make absolutely sure he has passed. Another method of making sure is to lightly slap the fish's head against something hard, thus concussing him (if he is sedated from the clove oil, the concussion should most likely kill him). I'm really sorry if this is graphic and gruesome but there aren't any nice ways to discuss this. :( I'm truly sorry.

Whatever you choose to do, please let us know. We're here to help no matter what.
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