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Old 12-16-2012, 10:36 PM   #221 
callistra
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Oh I see where she said it was nontuberculous mycobacterium now.. She also said it wasn't confirmed because she didn't pay the cost for testing.. so I guess her fish has some strain of mycobacterium.

Just because the fish that had the rot also had a mycobacterium disease doesn't mean that was the bacteria that caused the rot. It's very common for fish that have NTM (and TB) to also contract secondary infections because of a weakened immune system. Reading back I also see Coppermoon said the rot was a secondary infection.

Until we get a bunch more people confirming that mycobacterium is present in every single case of this I still highly doubt that's the case because it is completely uncharacteristic of the disease process

And again I would like to reiterate despite Coppermoon's insistence, there is a cure for mycobacterium, it's just a long process and there's no guarantee of recovery. Especially in the case of Coppermoon's still healthy but potentially infected fish.. I'd be doing 2 weeks of Kanaplex with Vitachem and seeing how it turns out, instead of just assuming all the currently healthy stock are going to die.

Last edited by callistra; 12-16-2012 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:18 AM   #222 
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So sorry you had to lose your stock, Lori. I remember Basement Bettas saying she had to clear out her fish room due to Myco too (though I don't know how recently that was.)

I'm glad that we have a diagnosis now, but it's too bad there's nothing more to be done.

It really is for the good of the whole that Lori culls her stock, I believe. There's always a chance that some rogue bacteria survives (especially with so many fish) and stays in her fish, eventually spreading once again through breeding, bred fish going to new homes with this disease. Risking the lives of thousands would not be worth it for "oh poor mr fish has some small chance!" in my opinion.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:31 PM   #223 
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Most experts generally suggest euthanizing/culling if myco is suspected. The only feasible way to try and treat a case is if it is your only fish and there is no chance at all of spreading the bacteria.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:38 PM   #224 
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From Tazman (in Quebec, Canada):
".....they have had several people come in with dead betta from this as well. They sent a sample off to have it verified as well and it also came back with a new powerful strain of mycobacterium, they have to get it scientifically verified though before a public announcement can be made. One of the staff is a member of the IBC and has passed information on to them to publish a paper on it."
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:39 PM   #225 
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As one strain becomes resistant, new strains appear. This is definitely a development that needs to be followed.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:42 PM   #226 
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Typically this sort of stuff happens from medicating but not curing. Myco is already hard to kill and perhaps someone had tried medicating it, it fought off the medicine and grew stronger. (This is exactly what is happening with human TB, the symptoms go away so people don't do a full treatment and it comes back worse).

All I can say is that when this gets verified, I will become a lot more sensitive about bringing in new fish. Oddly enough this seems to be confined to betta fish for the most part. No new bettas for me.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:12 PM   #227 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
From Tazman (in Quebec, Canada):
".....they have had several people come in with dead betta from this as well. They sent a sample off to have it verified as well and it also came back with a new powerful strain of mycobacterium, they have to get it scientifically verified though before a public announcement can be made. One of the staff is a member of the IBC and has passed information on to them to publish a paper on it."
Do you know if the fish that died were blue-colored? Because until now, it seems like the discussion on this thread has centered around blue bettas, specifically.... Or could this new strain of Mycobacterium be another disease that's becoming prevalent, and be occurring in addition to the blue 'mystery disease?'

Also, do you know when they hope to publish the paper? (Wondering how long we need to wait. LOL)
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:31 AM   #228 
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Mycobacterium is present in small quantities in almost all aquariums whether you like it or not. It can actually infect humans and cause serious health issues.

The strain which has been identified is one which has slightly mutated, the instance of it effecting only blue fish may have something to do with the genetics of blue betta. From what the person I spoke to said, the color pigmentation in blue betta is a perfect breeding ground to infect the fish. ONLY a dissection of the fish will reveal that it is indeed mycobacterium, there are specific nodules to look for on in the liver, gill plates and soft tissue of infected fish.

The supplier they use for the their Bettas sells all over North America and has been studying this disease with the help of a microbiologist specializing in fish disease from the Japanese Society of Fish Pathology a world renowned society for the study of fish disease.

There is no indication as to when a paper will be published on this.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:00 AM   #229 
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I will mention, that considering wholesaler is basically where most of these fish are coming from, there has got to be a beginning to this disease, somewhere. I have never had it spread, BTW, and there has been people who have had divided tanks and only their blue, or a fish derived from blue, that got it. Though not all blues get it, for me my record stands at 4/5, and the 5th was bloody old when I got him, and he was determined to be an old breeder.

The last fish I had got, he already had it and it spread too far to stop it. I would actually try again, keeping him well away from my fish room of course.

I had also fought off the disease for Shadow, however his internal organs had failed not but a week after, dropsy being the sign of his internal doom. Even if there is a cure, I will say above all else DO NOT BREED POTENTIAL DISEASES I culled Maine's entire spawn, because every single one of them would have been carriers, therefore continuing the line. I've also stopped getting any stock locally and have had to look further, even ship in. Though I won't say "never ever breed pet store fish" as people start out with them, if you do find your fish are infected with such mutated strains, please cull. even if you "think" the fish will be fine, do you really need to have 5-100 or so people complaining their fish died, do to a mysterious disease that took them between 12 and 72 hours?

It's too bad I got stuck on finding the origin of the blues from this store. It's a wholesaler, and that's all I could find out. If it were a breeder I would have contacted them to tell them what was happening. It could very well be someone from Thailand, Canada, USA, or anywhere in the world. The important thing is, to stop the disease at one fish.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:06 AM   #230 
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The granulomas that attach to the organs are what often cause the spinal deformities in cases of fish TB, as they grow so big they cause collapses of tissue and bone and muscle. But it appears that death, for some reason, occurs so rapidly in these new cases, that the usual symptoms do not appear. I want to emphasize that although this is mycobacterium, it's not necessarily fish TB.

Olympia brings up a very valid point about the medicating. It's important to always finish a full course of antibiotics, whether for fish or for yourself, to reduce the chances of the bacteria coming back with a vengeance.

Taz, thank you for shedding light on all of this.
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