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Old 01-16-2013, 09:46 PM   #291 
Reefing Madness
Join Date: Jun 2011
I don't think so. To many different signs point to to many different things. I'm not even a FW guy, and on one other Post of your tonight yoiu stated the same thing. The Member started Treatment, and has had visible signs of treatment working. And form the looks of the BOO-BOOS, he bumped his head. All these can't be the same diagnosis.
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:55 PM   #292 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Elk Grove, California
That pit by the eye/mouth . . . is the nostril.

Okay. Enough of this. Basement Bettas, you have made your point and you have written a thread to educate people. Now it's time to back off and let people make their own judgements.
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:59 PM   #293 
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i'd be more worried about the ICH that the fish has in that pic.
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:59 PM   #294 
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Location: Kingston, Ontario
I'm going to say, not every fish lives in a half gallon barrack system with 0 decor. These are pets that deal with daily wear and tear on their bodies, from decor, and sometimes rough handling. Every nick or scrape on a fish doesn't mean a disease. Did you get permission to edit that photo?
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:02 PM   #295 
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Location: Texas.. where else IS there.. lol
the grey around the nostril is mycos
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:04 PM   #296 
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Location: Central FL
Originally Posted by Basement Bettas View Post
Because it is VERY prevalent and no one wants to believe it. If you look at the head of that fish you can see patchy areas that are the start of the lesions. And there are already grey areas around the snout, If you look at the scales from the gill area back... you can see the start of it there in the scales. No need to believe me. That fish will prove me right in time. When he passes.. cut him open and look as all the pretty white speckles in all his organs.
Like I said, the "patch" you are seeing in that picture was a result of him being spooked from my BIL.
BTW, did you even bother to think the lighting can be causing what you're seeing. I'm looking at him RIGHT NOW. His body is completely black.
Go nit pick on your own fish.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:05 PM   #297 
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Umm, let me interject here. We are here to give a reasonable diagnosis of a disease. Most of us are pretty positive when it comes to the easy stuff. But none of us here is a Marine Biologist.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:05 PM   #298 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Elk Grove, California
Fishy, as the pic was your property and was edited without your permission, it has been removed.

BB, please don't edit people's pics without their permission.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:07 PM   #299 
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This ones fixin to get LOCKED. Everyone needs to step back alil bit here and relax.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:27 AM   #300 
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I really do hope that what I had IS different from the disease this thread started out for. Mine was IDed by a Chemistry Teacher, Betta Genetics, SMP (Wild Betta), breeder friend of mine. His wife is studying to be a nurse and she LOVES microbiology. It was IDed as Columnaris on visual ID. She attempted every type of media to culture this for a positive ID of Columnaris, as she too thought it was a Mega Strain. She could not get it to grow. I myself had a breeder early on die, and I cut him open with in minutes of him dying...OMG the smell!!! It made me sick!

Now...please don't take my word for it. Treat it as Columnaris. This is an article written by my mentor for aquarium keeping. I have his permission to post his articles any time I need to. I have attempted not to post any links (per the rules), but some of them may still post as a link:

Columnaris along with Saprolegnia in particular (Saprolegnia is often confused with Fungus) are two of the most misunderstood and often mistreated aquariums diseases, even Wikipedia has at best marginal information (& this is being 'generous' as of my last reading of their article) about these pathogens and their CORRECT treatment and prevention (prevention is the key with both of these unrelated but similar symptom pathogens).

Please read both sections/articles in FULL for a better understanding of these common pathogens.
With Columnaris it is important to learn the often important affect stress has in outbreaks as well as the importance positive mineral ions and the role these cations play in adhesion of Columnaris by reducing surface potential and repulsive forces (see the Minerals/Redox Section of "prevention" for a further explanation).

For Saprolegnia, in particular understanding the role of decaying organics, the lifecycle of Saprolegnia zoospores, and even pH play in prevention and treatment of the often very misunderstood Saprolegnia mold/fungi.


Columnaris (often referred to in the past as "cotton wool disease" or "cotton mouth disease") is a warm water, gram negative strictly aerobic and nonhalophilic (meaning they do not live in saltwater conditions) bacterium often appears like a fungus (or more correctly; Saprolegnia) however it is not a fungus, although many treatments for fungus are effective for mild cases of Columnaris (Flexibacteria), which is why Erythromycin is a strange choice of treatment as it is rarely effective for either Fungus of Columnaris (yet is often suggested, which really makes me scratch my head as to why these sites suggest this treatment).
The picture above left is of fingerling Rainbow Trout displaying a characteristic white saddleback lesion caused by Columnaris bacterium & of a Rift Lake (Malawi) Cichlid displaying classic Columnaris symptoms after stress and injury often caused by an over-crowded cichlid tank

However do not confuse Columnaris with the spores of Saprolegnia the cotton wool ball with hair like growth structures seen on damaged fish. Without a microscope, Columnaris can look like Saprolegnia and is often treated as fungus, sometimes with poor results.
The best way to tell with the naked eye (using a magnifying glass) is the hair like growth structures of Saprolegnia/Fungus.
WITH a microscope, scrapings from a columnaris lesion then placed under a microscope will reveal long, thin, rod shaped motile bacteria. The bacterial clumps form microscopic columns or dome shaped masses, hence the name columnaris.

Columnaris has similarities to Aeromonas bacterial infections in that both are opportunistic, however since Aeromonas is a facultative bacterium & often anaerobic it is more prevalent in a tank with high amounts of pollution, DOC and especially poor circulation. While Columnaris being only aerobic can occur in tanks with good filtration/circulation, however it is common in a tank with poor Redox/mineralization, overcrowding and stress (such as an aggressive fish tank where many inhabitants are constantly bullying others).
Unfortunately the above point is missed by many who often site dirty, stagnant, or otherwise poor water conditions as cause of Columnaris, but since Columnaris is aerobic, it simply cannot thrive in poor water conditions that are low in oxygen as does.

In lieu of often unavailable scientific microscopic identification, the above point is often noteworthy in identifying aerobic Columnaris from often anaerobic Aeromonas.

Please read further for a better understanding of this bacterial disease as well as treatment and prevention (there is also a section about Fungus/ Saprolegnia as well)

(Post was too long...please see next post)

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