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Old 08-23-2013, 07:53 AM   #421 
drake
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hi guys.
my female betta got dropsy.early stage.im curius where this bacteria/virus came from?
recently i feed my betta's with frozen blood worm.any thought?
i just change the water daily for my female betta,hopefully she will recover soon.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:07 AM   #422 
Helena1
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Thank you

LittleBlueFishlets - Thank you very much for your help and advice


Thanks everyone
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Old 08-29-2013, 09:16 PM   #423 
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my brothers fish has this i think!
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:16 PM   #424 
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So, is the mystery disease fish tb or not?

My fish died suddenly last week.

I wanted to know what he was suffering from, so I took pictures and posted them on forums (including this thread), showed them to people working in specialized ''fish stores’’ - I even took my fish (when he was still alive) to one of the stores to get some help.

After reading this thread – and as one ‘’specialists’’ suggested it was tb – I was convinced that Fish TB was killing my fish.

I called many places, including the university veterinary dept, where they have a team specialized in fish and exotic pets…

You guys know a lot about fish diseases and some of you have even had your fish ‘autopsied’ to confirm it was fish tb , so I want to know you opinion on what their vet said:

I told him about all of the symptoms my fish had (the exact symptoms I’ve read about on this page):
- graphite gray tissue necropsy that spreads from the bottom of the fins upward to the body within hours
- sudden loss of mobility (one day he was fine, the next he was swimming sideways)
- death within 12-24 hours, occasionally as long as 36 hours ( my fish died in 36 hours)

I mentioned Fish TB and asked him if he thought it could be the cause of death.
His answer : I did not think it was fish tb at all.

He said that Fish tb is extremely rare in small aquariums like mine and most of the fishes suffering from the same symptoms are dying of bacterial infections – nothing else, not fish tb.

He said that many diseases could cause the symptoms I was describing, and more…if, for any reason, the fish’s immune system is compromised, a disease can quickly take over a fish’s entire body and kill him in a matter of hours.

Also, he said that the symptoms of fish tb are usually a loss of scales, loss of color, lesions, wasting, curved spines and that it does not always kill a fish quickly - in his opinion, mycobacterium can be present in a fish but not develop until the immune system is compromised, and it can take days.(like streptococcus in humans). This could explain why it was found when an autopsy was done on a fish.

So, is the mystery disease fish TB or could it be something else? If it is fish tb, why don’t we see curved spines, lesions and loss of scales? Do you know of another disease that can cause the same symptoms and kill a fish so quickly?
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:45 PM   #425 
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The only way to know for certain whether a fish has Mycobacterial infection is to via laboratory analysis and/or a necropsy. (Technically speaking, people have autopsies, animals have necropsies.)

Several members here (Coppermoon and Basement Bettas) had their fish necropsied and analyzed by independent laboratories. Both of them are breeders and show their fish, so to them, it was worth the expense to pay for this. In both cases, they were told that their fish tested positive for Mycobacterial infections.

There are a few posts in this thread (and another one about Mycobacterial infection, which I don't think got stickied), that discuss how of these fish don't always appear to have the 'classic' symptoms (curved spines, etc). But I don't recall seeing a clear answer about this.

There were questions posed in these threads asking why blue Bettas seemed to show a slightly different set of symptoms, where the fins turned gray (but no lesions or spine curvature was noticed). Again, I don't recall seeing any answers about this. (I do remember one post where someone said this was being studied.)

As for Mycobacterial infection being rare in small aquariums, my answer would be a question: Where was your fish before you got him? Many of us get our fish from chain petstores. Before that, the fish were often imported to large scale distributors. Could they have been exposed to something there? The answer is: We don't know.

You asked if other diseases could cause these same symptoms of gray fins, loss of mobility and quick death. I am not a veterinarian, but I would say that the gray fins indicate tissue death. At this point when this occurs, the internal organs are failing, and the fish is dying. As it dies, the external tissues (fins) would start to die first and turn gray/black. As the internal organs fail more, it's possible that the fish will lose mobility. And once the organs fail completely, death would result.

So I would guess that yes, other aggressive infections that attack the internal organs could possibly cause the same type of symptoms.

But, from what I have read, the only way to know for sure if a fish has Mycobacterial infection is to conduct lab analysis and/or a necropsy. During a lab analysis, internal organs are examined, and samples are cultured to determine the presence of Mycobacteria. So, unfortunately, this is the only way to really determine whether this was the actual cause of death.

Hopefully, someone like Sakura, Basement Bettas or Coppermoon will weigh in on this.....
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:25 PM   #426 
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Sorry

I'm sorry. I thought I read a post saying it was confirmed it was tb causing these symptoms. Maybe because English isn't my first language I misunderstood. sorry again.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:25 PM   #427 
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Yes, you're correct in that it was Mycobacterial infection that caused the death of Coppermoon's and Basement Betta's fish. They both confirmed this via necropsy and lab analysis....

But it's possible that there are other illnesses/diseases that can have similar symptoms. So the only way to know for sure if it's Mycobacteria causing the problem is to do what Coppermoon and Basesment Bettas did, which is to have the fish necropsied and/or analysed.

Unfortunately, lab analysis/necropsy is expensive. So it's not something that most people will do. And even if someone wants to have an analysis/necropsy done, it must be done right after the fish dies. If it's not done right away, the body decomposes, and the lab can't determine the cause of death.

But again, maybe Sakura, Coppermoon or Basement Bettas will be able to provide more information about this for you.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:28 PM   #428 
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You can do your own post mortem necropsy, which will not be as conclusive as a lab analysis but *may* give you an insight on how the fish died, since there are often very obvious internal symptoms in fish with myco.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:45 PM   #429 
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Matt - Would someone doing this need a microscope, or it is possible to see the abnormalities just by looking at specific organs?

(Also, do you know if these abnormalities are specific to Myco, or could similar changes be caused by either bacterial or parasitical infections?)
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:52 PM   #430 
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Granulomas (small white growths caused be the body attacking the bacteria) should be visible to the naked eye for someone that doesn't have impaired sight, but a microscope would be very helpful, especially if you are looking for other things like parasites.

There are a few other things that can cause granulomas to form but they are relatively uncommon. If the fish has shown other symptoms of myco and granulomas are present it would be safe to conclude that myco was the cause of death and to take appropriate sterilization measures, etc.
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