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Old 12-12-2011, 05:21 PM   #1 
Plummedy
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Betta fish unresponsive, bottom sitting!

I left for one day - before leaving he seemed fine other than having more trouble seeing his food than usual for a week or two. I came back today and he's sitting at the bottom not moving. He's still breathing, he moved when I went to touch him, but isn't coming up to get air or moving at all.

I did a very quick 80% water change and put in one teaspoon of kosher salt (all I have right now). I checked the ammonia and it was nearly zero. It's a newer tank, but I used the same filter and gravel from his previous tank.

It's a 10 gallon, fake planted, I do about 50-60% water changes once a week (treated with prime) and the tank is at a nearly constant 80 degreees F and I have a tetra whisper filter running (with a diffuser). What do I do at this point - sit and wait? More salt?

I also have a snail that's been with him since I got him. I've had him a little over a year now. Will the salt hurt the snail?

I should also mention that he never does this, he's usually active, near the top. His breathing looks slowed and heavy.
Sorry, one more edit - could sleep have something to do with it? It looks like my automatic timer on my light screwed up and possibly completely reversed the schedule for one night. Even so, he was unresponsive during the water change like a dead fish almost.

Thanks so much.

Last edited by Plummedy; 12-12-2011 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:27 PM   #2 
EvilVOG
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Well AQ salt (kosher salt in this case) is used for treating bacterial and fungal infections. If we don't know he has one then it's not a good idea.

Epsom salt is used for treating Swimming bladder disorder, that has symptoms similar to what yours is displaying.

Salts may hurt the snail. I'm not certain but it's usually a bad idea for anything without scales.

A picture might help us diagnose better, and also fill out as much of the following (i realize much of this info is in your original post)
Quote:
Housing
What size is your tank?
What temperature is your tank?
Does your tank have a filter?
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration?
Is your tank heated?
What tank mates does your betta fish live with?

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish?
How often do you feed your betta fish?

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change?
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change?
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change?

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity:

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed?
How has your betta fish's behavior changed?
When did you start noticing the symptoms?
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how?
Does your fish have any history of being ill?
How old is your fish (approximately)?
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:38 PM   #3 
Myates
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Ack!

Salt will most likely kill your little shelled friend.. go ahead and remove the snail and place him in like-temp water in a clean container with water conditioner if you haven't already.

Hmm... definitely a picture to show us if there are any physical signs.
How is his coloring?
Is he breathing rapidly?
Is he tilting to a side?
When you do your water changes, do you siphon/vacuum the gravel out regularly?
Are his fins clamped?
When he did swim for you, did he swim normal right side up?

Go ahead and remove him as well, place him in clean conditioned water that is 3-4 inches deep to help him get to the surface easier and do a 100% water change in his tank to clear it of salt- once you have it set back up and the right temp, your little snail friend can go back home.

Is he going blind or is blind? Or was it just out of the blue he was having trouble seeing his food- did he lunge and keep missing? Or did he just not go after it? It could be an early sign of what is going on- for right now other then just laying on the bottom he isn't showing a whole lot of signs.
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:44 PM   #4 
Plummedy
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Do you think I should do another water change (just did one) to get rid of the salt? Or would that be too stressful - it was just a small teaspoon.

Sorry, wrote this in a panic. I attached the best pictures I could get for now, he's in an awkward corner curled up and won't move. I'll try to get better ones. He's been looking fat for about a month so I started feeing him less pellets a day because I thought he may be over fed. I haven't noticed much else different in appearance besides some bumps around his head that I couldn't tell if they were always there and I didn't look close enough or not. It's part of his body, no color or protrusion; just lumpy.

What size is your tank? 10 gallons
What temperature is your tank? 80 degrees fahrenheit
Does your tank have a filter? Yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? No
Is your tank heated? Yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? A big snail that grew up with him, must've been an egg in some drift wood when I got him.

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? For the past few months, Hikari Betta Bio-Gold and occasionally some freeze-dried blood worms.
How often do you feed your betta fish? Twice a day, since his diet - 2 pellets in morning 2 at night (usually 3-4 twice a day).

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? Once every one to two weeks, sometimes it gets away from me.
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 50-60%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Seachem Prime

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Hardness:
Alkalinity:

- Will test other parameters tomorrow

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Not much if at all, slightly bumpier?
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Not moving from bottom of tank, laying on side/curled slightly.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? Today
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? One teaspoon of Kosher salt
Does your fish have any history of being ill? No
How old is your fish (approximately)? 1.5 years

http://imageshack.us/g/803/dsc0110gf.jpg/

Last edited by Plummedy; 12-12-2011 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:49 PM   #5 
Plummedy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myates View Post
Ack!

Salt will most likely kill your little shelled friend.. go ahead and remove the snail and place him in like-temp water in a clean container with water conditioner if you haven't already.

Hmm... definitely a picture to show us if there are any physical signs.
How is his coloring?
Is he breathing rapidly?
Is he tilting to a side?
When you do your water changes, do you siphon/vacuum the gravel out regularly?
Are his fins clamped?
When he did swim for you, did he swim normal right side up?

Go ahead and remove him as well, place him in clean conditioned water that is 3-4 inches deep to help him get to the surface easier and do a 100% water change in his tank to clear it of salt- once you have it set back up and the right temp, your little snail friend can go back home.

Is he going blind or is blind? Or was it just out of the blue he was having trouble seeing his food- did he lunge and keep missing? Or did he just not go after it? It could be an early sign of what is going on- for right now other then just laying on the bottom he isn't showing a whole lot of signs.

I saved some of the water from my water change, I'll put him in there for now.

Coloring is good, breathing is heavy and slow, definitely tilted to the side, yes I siphon regularly, no clamped fins, swam normal side up.

Thanks a lot!
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:50 PM   #6 
Myates
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Have a quick question with those pictures.. did you use a flash? The rust color dusting on him, is that usual, do you see that all the time on him or is it relatively new?
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:56 PM   #7 
Plummedy
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I'm pretty sure that's his normal color. I did use a flash, it could be bouncing off of the rock color. From the naked eye his color looks fairly healthy. His scaled look slightly slightly raised, but that could be normal I usually don't look so closely.

He hasn't come up to take a breath from the top in about half an hour, can he survive without breathing up top? Should I move him or something? I do have a floating betta log he usually lays in.
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:59 PM   #8 
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What worries me is the coloration, the rust dusting color on him- if it's not his normal color, that you can pretty much see with the naked eye then I am wanting to say he has velvet. With the naked eye, what colors are on his tail?

They can breathe some through their gills- I would place him in a small container with 3-4 inches of water so he can reach it easier.
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:08 PM   #9 
Plummedy
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Here are better pictures ...

http://imageshack.us/g/197/dsc0127kh.jpg/

I moved him to a container as you can see in the pictures. When I went to pick him up with the net he did attempt to get away, but now even in the shallow container he hasn't come up for air - just laying on his side as you can see in the pictures. I really see no dust color now especially in the new container. How long do I keep him in here with no filter/heater?

He's breathing really heavy now and I'm getting scared :(
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:15 PM   #10 
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Emergency! He came up to get a breath of air finally then back to his side, now his eyes are closing! Any action I can take!?

EDIT: completely closed, body looks puffed up and scales raised slightly!
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