Betta Fish Care  
Go Back   Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care > Betta Fish Diseases and Emergencies
Check out the eBook Betta Fish Care Made Easy
betta fish
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-01-2012, 04:06 AM   #21 
iceyrose
Member
 
iceyrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: mn
He's become more lathargic and its deffinitly clamped fins. The cloudyness seems a lot better after water chang however the cloudynes is also on his face now..wounder if where dealing with. Protazoan activity or if that's apart of ick. It looks Slimmy. On another note he was really freaking me out being so lathargic...put filters back in noticed he wants to move more started shimmying this afternoon. Ugh hope to pick up a Ph water kit soon.
iceyrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 08:43 AM   #22 
Geomancer
Member
 
Geomancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boston, MA
I can't see the pictures you posted... so I can't confirm if it is ich or not. Ich is very pronounced white spots, they are small, and should be fairly uniform in size. If they are all different sizes, and fuzzy, that may be fungus. Ich does not cause 'cloudyness'.



Now on to ich...

Ich is a parasite, and has a life cycle. While on the fish, it is immune to medication and can not be harmed. Once it is done feeding, it will drop off and fall to the bottom. At this point it will multiply by the hundreds/thousands and again is immune to medication (and salt). Once it is done reproducing, they'll become free swimming and look for a host. They do not live long in this stage, and they are vulnerable to medication at this point.

The time it takes for this cycle to proceed is entirely dependent on temperature, the higher the temp the faster it will proceed. Recommended is 86 degrees. It has been shown that at 86 degrees ich is no longer able to reproduce. With some fish, it is possible to go all the way up to 91 degrees, which is the temperature that will outright kill the ich. A betta will be more than fine at 86 degrees for a week.

I would strongly recommend going up to 86 degrees. The constant water changes will be very stressful though, I'd really only do that if your ammonia is spiking, which is possible in a small bowl. Stress weakens the immune system, a normal healthy fish is more than capable of warding off ich on its won so whatever you can do to reduce stress is good. Maybe do partial changes daily, instead of 100% so you're not cupping him daily. A liquid ammonia test would be good to ensure you're not building up ammonia (which causes more stress than water changes).

Normal treatment in an aquarium that can hold a cycle (beneficial bacteria cycle) is to raise temp to 86 and add salt OR medication, not both. Salt is the 'natural' method, but medications work faster. You then just leave everything alone for 1 week. With live plants, you can not use salt.

Personally I've had good success with Coppersafe. Our Betta had ich from the store, the first day was ~30 spots, after 24 hours they were down to 3-5 spots, and by the second day of treatment all the spots were gone, and no new ones returned. We left the temp up and did no water changes for 1 full week. We had live plants, so there were no issues with ammonia/nitrite.

For your decorations, they will be infected with ich. Generally the entire tank must be treated. Ich can not survive without a host though, so removing them will work too. Just be aware that as mentioned above, ich has a life cycle dependent on temperature. If the bucket you have these decorations in is not heated, the cycle will be slowed considerably (weeks).
Geomancer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 05:16 PM   #23 
iceyrose
Member
 
iceyrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: mn
Well today is day three..got wiged out last last night and put filters back in to see if that would help he had alittle more energy then this morning he seemed down still...finaly got somone to pick up the ph test kit* I'm highly certain this was effecting him. His tank water with conditioner in it is 2.5 gallon put one gallon spring water and one gallon fauset water. Wowzers so I picked up the api ph test & adjuster kit. Won't be using there ups or down to chanhe his water just theliquid test kit with drops. On another note holy buckets his tank water was 8.0~ 8.2. Yikes not good. So I proceeded to do 100% water change. tested spring water tested befor med or salt. @6.6~6.8 slightly low+ water from fauset came out around 8.0+ higher* so for the 2.5gallon 100% water change i. Put little buddy in what I'm calling small med floaty*aka jar we adpoted* Neacco in. Pulled silk plant heater filter system with out filter and scolded them with hot hot water. Rinsed tank with hot hot water then cold.

Put a mix of 1\2 the does of ick guard in with spring water after mix the ph came out to 6.8...did half a dose because I read that for smaller fish or weak fish half does is best or ick guard 2* then mixed one gallon of spring water with 1\2 of aquarium salt that ph was @ 7.0~7.2
put half the jug in.. so now there's 1.5 mix of med &aquarium salt. Then the rest is more spring water and a bout a cup and a half of fauset water to balance the ph to close to 6.8~7.0.
iceyrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 05:25 PM   #24 
iceyrose
Member
 
iceyrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: mn
going to keep him in his med bowl that floats in the tank then I can used medicated water to change the othere bowl water out more often plus temps will remain the same going to start raising his temps slightly tonight from the 80~83 just to see how he does hope this plan is more helpfull for him. Didn't water to over does his med by removing only 20% of the water and put more meds in. Anyways thanks for you input. I love clow loaches there so cute I used to help take care of one named him snorkal...cause he's a bottem feeder.
iceyrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 10:03 PM   #25 
iceyrose
Member
 
iceyrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: mn
Well its been a long week since his med issues started...delt with ick...the ph balance in 8.2+ range the mild case of fin rot due to the ph being as I cange the 2.5 gallon tank ever 3_4 50_75%. Picked up aquarium salt...and noticed he responed best at half does which is half gallon and half does of ick thur except tuesday~ sat. untill this Sunday I put filter system back in and picked up a 5gallon tank after lamp whent out after owning it for 2weeks or so. I gavem quick cure at 1drop per 2gallons reccomended for small fish and tetras. 1\2 half gallon of aquriums salt plus stress coat saturday . Took 7 hours for heater to heat his tank up to 80'f what the heck its brand new heater and I always wait 15min to remove from water. Turned the filter system back on later Sunday night to remove any extra meds in the water as the carbon removed most meds...to see how neacco would react and to possibly add another treatment of quick cure. He seems more active today and his temps are holding steady at 80'f. I didn't add more meds..his body looks annoyed by meds. The white spot I was concernd about is still there..starting to wounder if its from somthing else? His stress strips are still there hoping. He get better soon. He was 100% excited about his 5gallon tank he truly loves it. He looks so tiny in it like a little kid wearing big clown shoes or somthing. I was truely in tears this last week because of his fin rot issue from ph which turnd out to only took alittle off his dangly fins and his anal fin. But it was trummatizing a hell as he looks very dull and had very low energy. He has lots of energy now I'm so very thankfull his energys back...still eatting when its time .
iceyrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 10:33 PM   #26 
iceyrose
Member
 
iceyrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: mn
He also had white spots on his tail too..he's still doing his yawning movement like he's eating somthing when its not feeding time...all post up date pic of neacco shortly
iceyrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 02:32 PM   #27 
iceyrose
Member
 
iceyrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: mn
Question up date of neacco*



Neacco still has this white dot on his side near his gills....he was looking very sickly after the week of ick treatment. I used half dose of the product since he's a small fish. He's very active lately and is always hungry and eats his meals at feeding time. Does anyone know what this white dot is? Its not apart of his coloring.
iceyrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 05:44 PM   #28 
Geomancer
Member
 
Geomancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boston, MA
I'm having a hard time following what all you've done, but it sounds like quite a lot.

Doing water changes, and trying to fool around with the pH is extremely stressful for fish. pH is a logarithmic scale which means that a pH of 7.2 is 2 times as basic as 7.1. A pH of 8.1 is 10 times as basic as 7.1. A pH of 9.1 is 100 times as basic as 7.1 ... so you get the idea.

It is best to NOT screw with pH. If you are doing a half tap half RO/DI (Reverse Osmosis or Distilled) to make the water softer, you should always use the exact same mixture so that the water parameters do not have sudden shifts.

In addition, pH does not cause fin rot, but it can stress fish which weakens their immune system and can make them susceptible to disease.

You keep talking about a spot, as if it is one single spot. Ich is many spots, not just one. In addition for ich, if it is ich, you want the temperature up to 86 degrees. 80 is more of a normal temperature for a betta, it is not elevated. 86 will not stress out a betta if it is only that high for 1 week, and the rise is gradual. At 84-86 you can expect the ich cycle to take ~4 days. At lower temperature the cycle is longer. The lower the temp, the longer their life cycle.

For a 2.5 gallon you should only be doing one 100% change, and one 50% change a week. Excessive water changes will stress the fish. They do not like being 'cupped' for each 100% change, and you must re-acclimate them for the 100% change. Vigorous cleaning of the bowl does not help with ich, a single parasite will multiply by the hundreds/thousands each cycle and it is not possible to clean off every single one.

Lastly, you should not mix salt and medication. Pick one or the other and stick with it. Salt long term is not healthy for betta's, they are freshwater fish. It should not be used longer than 10 days.

As mentioned, you need the water parameters to be identical when you do water changes. When dealing with medications it is best to have a larger bucket of water that you treat and dose for medication, and keep heated with a spare heater to use during water changes. If that isn't possible, you should make your tap water as close as possible in temperature.
Geomancer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 09:10 PM   #29 
mathkid
New Member
 
mathkid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Please listen to Geomancer.

* Don't mix medications - salt is a medication.
* Medicine is stressful for your fish and you should only turn to it when you are SURE of what he has and you are SURE this is the right medication to use.
* DON'T MIX MEDICATIONS. Seriously.
* Don't overreact and try to do everything at once - you can kill your fish this way.
* Bettas are hardy; pH doesn't matter, and they will adjust to anything as long as it's consistent. Use your tap water. My tap water is 8.3 from the tap, and my betta is fine.
* You should never raise the temperature more than 1 degree per hour, and you may want to do it slower - so what your heater did is exactly what it's supposed to do.

As far as I can tell from the picture, your fish does not have ich. Relax a little, TEST his water - if ammonia and nitrites are staying at 0, you don't need to be doing so many water changes! The best protection is his own immune system. Let him adjust and heal by himself.
mathkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 09:42 PM   #30 
iceyrose
Member
 
iceyrose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: mn
Neacco had ick and the other spot where on his tail...thanks for assuming I'm doing such a ****ty job takikng care of neacco I've done a lot of studying in the last two weeks there isn't alway clear cut answers and a lot of issues contradic them selfs amongst chats and study. He was in a 2.5 gallon and is now in a 5gallon. I appreacait your comments and ideas* I won't be keeping him in 8.2+ ph water. The odd thing also is with meds they don't always give clear cut instructions. Even after studying for three days about ick and the aquarium salt. Nothing came up for use less than 14 days. Untill a few days ago in a form. He's doing better except yesterday night and night befor his belly was swollen like huge only between 11:30~5 or 6 am. Guess people are saying they think he constipated*
iceyrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ick

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.