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Old 03-08-2012, 10:16 PM   #21 
kfryman
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I am with Badjer. This really isn't a place to argue about religion, you may not realize it or admit it but there is arguing. Things like this usually lead to bashing on religion like you SEE everywhere on YouTube, someone brings up something religious, almost everyone gangs up on that person.

The beliefs you accept or were raised on depends on you, I chose to go to religion on my own. No one made me. It all depends what YOU think.

My church is a chill church, I feel comfortable there and the people accept me, not like at school where I am made fun of. It is a place for ME to be happy. I really don't care if your religous, spiritual, or athiest.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:12 PM   #22 
GreenTea
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FishyFish, I didn't say anything about belief. I gave you some facts about the religion you claim. I'm really not arguing. I've never said anyone's wrong for believing what they do or that they're idiots for believing there's a god or anything of the sort. People have to do what's right for them. I didn't say anything was right or wrong. I'm merely pointing out my problems with a patriarchal christian religion in which you are literally convicted of thought crime the day you come out of the womb. If factual information from the bible makes you uncomfortable because it's horrible, then maybe you should no longer align yourself with that dogma that says slavery is ok but being gay is not, for just one example.

It's not inflammatory, it's true. I'm all for everyone believing what they want, I think people are good and should believe as they wish. I would be shocked if what was in the bible wasn't inflammatory, there's a lot of really bad stuff in there. I think it's a good sign it's upsetting, it'd be scary if what it contains didn't disturb people. Ignorance is bliss.

Anyone can feel free to pm me about anything at any time.

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Old 03-08-2012, 11:14 PM   #23 
dramaqueen
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This forum is not supposed to be a religious platform but I'm going to allow the thread to stay open because it's an interesting topic.Like sena said, please guys, no arguing or bashing. You can take it up via pm with each other if you want.
I was raised Catholic and became a Baptist in my early 20's. I have been taught and I believe that God is loving, kind and cares about everyone, even people who don't believe in or reject Him. Also, God is not going to force Himself into people's lives.He patiently waits to be invited into our lives. Also,God doesn;t send people to hell, we send ourselves with our unbelief. My faith has gotten me through a lot of stuff from having an alcoholic father to the death of my older brother from a terminal illness. I normally stay away from commenting on these type of threads but I felt it was time to say something.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:21 PM   #24 
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Yeah and if that works for you DQ I think that's great. Different things work for different people.

DQ let me ask you these things though - God created hell. God knew all along that Eve would eat the apple and cause us to die. The knowledge contained in the apple is the only way she would have understood consequences of her actions in the first place, so he did send us to hell. If he didn't create it, or actually gave us a peaceful perfect world in which we could know him with any certainty, it would not be an issue. How was this set up for us to be successful in any way? Why did he need to create a world of people just to praise him anyway? Doesn't that seem very fickle for an all knowing and powerful, perfect being?

I was raised catholic as well, and baptized by a baptist minister. I was the first person he baptized, actually. I played music in a baptist church. My belief in the natural world, my own logic and reasoning skills, friends, family, and some therapy got me through (to name a few) - an eating disorder, an abusive partner, drug addiction, relocation, losing family members, and every day life. For me, there is no physical evidence of god, no logical reason to believe he exists, and "his word" (written by people centuries ago years after alleged jesus died and translated several times) is full of contradictions, hate, and violence.

When I actually sat down and read the bible, I was horrified. Once you get past the lovey dovey give me 10% of your wages bit and get into what the "good book" is actually advocating, it gets pretty scary for me. IMO anyone who doesn't want you to think, can't be your friend.

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Old 03-08-2012, 11:38 PM   #25 
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i believe that God's ways are not our ways and there are some things we just aren't meant to know.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:45 PM   #26 
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That seems like a cop out DQ. I'm really curious as to your opinion. That's so vague and exactly my problem with it all. How are we supposed to believe anything when the best answer we can get is "We don't actually know what he's thinking or wants, but we're going to say we do." Of course, not all christians or religious people do this, but many do. Even that is fine, what's worse is when they try to impose it on others through legislation, schools, etc.

Even with that response though... if we aren't supposed to understand, why do we get burned for eternity for that lack of understanding? Does that seem right to you? And even if we aren't supposed to know, based on your own sense of morality and that apple situation, doesn't that seem incredibly twisted and misleading? He made us in his image, right? If that's the case, you'd think we'd have similar thinking and moral codes. Why wouldn't he want to say "HEY! Guys look, I made all this for you. Let me help you live peaceful fulfilling lives!" Or, even if he was hiding, once you fully believed in him, why wouldn't he appear in that way? You're doing everything he wants, why is he still hiding until you're dead?

There's just no reason for eternal torture anywhere in the equation. And any way you slice it, he created that place, and planned for anyone not accepting of the blind faith answer to burn in it.

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Old 03-08-2012, 11:58 PM   #27 
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Also it's clear to me no that some people are here to state their views and not actually really listen to contrasting viewpoints or accept new information into their lives. I'm wasting my breath trying to get people to think critically about their own belief systems. It's a very uncomfortable thing to do. I strive to do it every day and think about why I'm doing everything I do, it is very uncomfortable, but the knowledge I gain is worth it.

I understand that some people just need certain things in their life and have ideas they are unwilling to let go of even with mounting evidence to the contrary, because they are attached to them, find them helpful, or just like the idea of them. All of that is ok with me and I get it, I don't want to mess with that, so I will see my way out of this conversation.

I know for me, losing my faith was painful. I felt lied to and feared I wouldn't have the sense of community. I was wrong, I have the best community in the world now and wouldn't change it for anything. The community of atheists fights for civil rights for everyone, the environment, logic, reason, education, and it is not terrifying or scary as someone stated. You can have a connection to people, animals, and the earth and be an atheist. If you want to call that spiritual, that's ok too. I feel that connection because I understand how things came to be and how fleeting life is.

My guides for life are: Question everything, do your research, remember that thoughts and feelings are just that, and not reality necessarily, and that feelings shouldn't prevent you from seeking hard truth. Stand up for what you believe in and always speak out against tyrants.

Last edited by GreenTea; 03-09-2012 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:05 AM   #28 
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I'm sorry about whatever happened that made you lose your faith, I certainly didn't mean for my comments to cause anyone to get angry.
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:07 AM   #29 
Sena Hansler
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Lol I am spiritual, but because I think constantly I love to ask, and ask, and ask However, because I won't "pick" (is that the right word?) a "god", I do tend to feel isolated from certain religious people, however not all. I have a group of friends which are everywhere from being atheist, agnostic, religious.... and different sexual orientations too, but we all respect each other. we can hold a conversation about religion without ANYONE getting offended. Usually just a "why would god...?" or "what about....?" views which are lovely, and i was hoping to see something like that on here rather than bashing or arguing (thank you all).

to me, "why do I believe in a possible god?" well, look at it this way. believe in something, and if it's there - great. if not, all well. :p 50/50 chance.
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:08 AM   #30 
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I'm not angry DQ, especially not at you, and nothing happened to make me lose my faith. I read the bible, and I don't support what it contains, so I left. That was it. I have found the most amazing people and my life is fantastic.

What frustrates me beyond anything is willful ignorance and all of the violence religion has incited throughout history.
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